HPS lighting

[maimz]

i found a bunch of 250w HPS ballasts for sale in cambridge for the cheap price of $40 each......teh metal halide were the same price but the guy sold out.....just wondering if i should get a couple extra(i need some for my garden already) for the fish tank......the only thing i really need to know is the kelvin rating that is best for starting a marine tank.......since HPS and MH are not the catch all term it used to be there are many dual purpose bulbs available with multiple spectrums....ie...hortilux eye....or sunmaster warm deluxe...also..if these are in fact good for a tank i can give out the guys contact info...thanks

[Dman]

Maimz,
And now for the wonderful world of marine lighting:

Lighting falls into two categories, Incandescent and florescent. We'll skip the sunlight and candle lighting sections for another board :D

INCANDESCENT

Regular discharge and HID or High Intensity Discharge. Regular discharge includes the lights in your hallway, fridge and oven, this also includes the many varieties of low voltage lighting found in and around your garden and walkways. None of these are a favourable choice in this hobby as the colour spectrum is too red and the lights are too hot (as a percentage of their overall efficiency).
HID lighting includes, HPS (High Pressure Sodium), MH (Metal Halides), MV (Mercury Vapour), Quartz and Halogens. These have mostly industrial applications as well as some specialized hobby uses as well, most notably indoor hydroponics and marine aquaria. In this group, lighting spectrums can be tailored to suit the application and efficiencies are alot more acceptable than regular bulbs.
HPS lighting is usually found in factories with high ceilings and round the clock operations and for street and security lighting as they cast an orangy-reddish glow.
MH lighting is the same as HPS lighting in application, but the light cast is whiter (bluer if you will) and is the most popular choice for lighting over marine aquaria that includes hard corals and clams.
MV lighting is very much similar to HPS lighting in colour and application with one exception, Iwasaki bulbs discharge at 6500 degrees Kelvin and appear almost white with a yellow tint.
Quartz and halogens are similar in appearance to MH's but are no where near as efficient and most of the usable light is too red, even though they appear white/blue.

FLORESCENTS

NO (Normal Output), SHO (Super High Output), VHO (Very High Output), PC (Power Compacts)

NO lighting is the same as you see everywhere, in the workshop, shopping mall, yada,yada,yada. SHO is like NO just brighter and VHO is like SHO only brighter still. And PC are like little versions of VHO's

NO 4 foot = 40W
SHO 4 foot = 65W ???
VHO 4 foot = 110W

This is about all I know about Florescents, someone else my be able to fill in the blanks.
HTH
Dman

[Gordoe]

There is a big difference between High Pressure Sodium, Mercury, and Metal Halide lighting... One ballast won't necessarily work for the others. You'll shorten the life of the bulb. At $100-$200 each I don't think you want to do that.. The lighting manufacturers have excellent websites to explain CRI, Bulb Temp, and type of bulb.

I'm currently involved with a project to assess the lighting requirements for a 3.2 million sq.ft facility.. i'm learning more than I ever wanted to learn about lighting! :)

http://www.sylvania.com/
http://www.gelighting.com/na/business/


Gordoe

[seabass]

if your going to keep a reef tank, go with MH. if you cant afford that than go VHO. stay away from HPS, I found them to make good algae grower lol.Florescents dont give enough light so thats a no no, except of course the VHO's.

[maimz]

hey gordoe...i wasnt implying that i would try to use a MH bulb with a HPS ballast...but in any case it can be done through conversion bulbs...although you lose watts in the process and they are very expensive...did everyone here know that you you can run multiple lights from a larger ballast but you cannot run higher wattage bulbs with a lower wattage ballast....peace...the learning never ends!!

[reefburnaby]

Hi

HPS or LPS aren't very good for lighting a reef. The main problem is that it doesn't have a very good representation of sunlight in the ocean (i.e. CRI). Sunlight is generally white and it is slightly bluish in the water. HPS are generally yellowish.

Best to avoid...unless you are willing to experiment.

If you are willing to experiment, I can provide you with some details with my current experiment. I am building a Icecap clone...SHO at 1/3 to 1/2 the cost. According to my light meter/camera, it is pretty bright and its output approaches that of VHOs. The cost is around $30-$40 per lamp fixture...each lamp can produce about the same output as a VHO or PC.

Hope that helps.

- Victor.

[Dman]

reefburnaby,
I am very interested in your little lighting experiment (insert insideous Dr. Jekyl laugh here) please tell me more
Dman

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Well...I don't know where to start...its going to a long one..

Objective:
To produce a lighting system that produces the same amount of light as SHO without an Icecap. Around here an Icecap 660 is about $270 each. Pretty expensive for a ballast that delivers 65W to a F40T12.

Theory:
F32T8s (the thin tubes - 1" diameter) -- these lamps produce 2600 to 3000 lumens of output and consume 30W of lamp power. So, it produces 86 to 100 lumens per watt.

F40T12s (the thick tubes - 1.5" diameter) -- these lamps produce 3000-3300 lumens and consume 40W.

VHOs (F40T12VHO) -- these lamps produce roughly 6000-6500 lumens of output. I am not sure, but some manufactures say that their output decreases to 4000-5000 lumens after 1000 hours. These lamps consume 110 W.

PC (PL-L 55W) -- these lamps produce roughly 4500 to 5000 lumens of output and consume 55W.

So, we need a F32T8 that glows as bright as VHOs or PCs...say 5000 to 6000 lumens. Based on F32T8's efficiency of 85 lumens per watt, we need roughly 70W or 240% output of F32T8s. There will be some drop off in the efficiency due to heat - so we might need 80W. How do we do that ?

Each output on the ballast is responsible for delivering power to a tube ... lets suppose we hooked up the ballast outputs in parallel. Say, we had a ballast that can drive 4 seperate F32T8s. If we hooked up all the outputs of the ballasts together...we would deliver about 400% output to the lamp -- or drive the power required to drive 4 lamps in to one lamp. Now...this only really works for electronic ballasts and I waive any responsibility if somebody does this...and burns their reef down or injuries themselves. :) Don't try this on a magnetic ballast...they work on a different principle.

Materials:
- F32T8 fluroescent tubes (6500K GE - $3.50)
- 4 tube F32T8 electronic ballasts from your local hardware store. I used an Advance REL-4P32-SC - which I got from Home Depot ($30).
- End caps ($3 pair)
- Wire nuts. ($0.20 each)
- power cable - ($3)
How I did it:

I wire all of the yellow wires to one side of the tube and all the red+blue wires to the other side of the tube. This should deliver 4x the output of a single tube. Since 4P32-SC is a standard ballast, it will only deliver 88% of the 30W for F32T8 -- its a standard practice to save power for indutrial/office lighting.


~350% (=88% X 4) should deliver 9000 lumens (350% X 86 lumens X 30W). I took a light reading with my camera and I got 6500 lumens. So why a difference...

It turns out that parallel overdriving does always 4x the power of one ballast -- this is due to the fact that it wasn't engineered or design to operate like this. I measured the power consumed by the ballast through the AC outlet, and it was 80W. So, 80W is actually being delivered to the tubes -- so that means 80W X 86 lumens/watt = 6900 lumens. Okay...close enough.


Those Who Dare to Try:
I would start with 1x drive first and measure the power consumed by the ballast. Then, I would try 2x...then 3x and finally 4x. Since each ballast will be different, results may vary. Personally, I would limit overdriving to 90W or less. :D

So...there you go. 6000 to 6500 lumens for $40....its being working for me for about 2 to 3 months. :D

- Victor.

[Dman]

reefburnaby,
Tres Cool, dude. :thumbsup:
Could you draw me up a quick schematic and email it to me? I have a pretty good ides what you are talking about, would just like to see something of the physical aspects on paper.
How has the reliability been, any problems starting up, probably not. Heat? The bulb would burn hotter, naturally but beside three 250W Iwasakis' they would be a cool breeze. i mean heat in or from the ballast. What is you anticipated failure rate and time frame for the bulb and the ballast?
Inquiring minds want to know
Dman

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Here's some more info. I'll try to draw up a schematic and email it/post it (or something a long those lines)


My Tank:
This is for a 90 gal (48x18x24) tank. It has a 5 inch DSB and the lights are 5 inches from the water. I have two overdrive lamps - two 6500K. I will be adding a third, but it will be actinic.

My lighting measurements are the following :

At the surface, 16000 to 20000 lux.
At middle of tank, 7000 lux.
At bottom of the tank. 4500 lux.

BTW, usually 2x175W MH produce this much light :) It is also...encroaching the 2x250W area.

Temperature...too hot to touch for more than 5 seconds, but doesn't burn your finger off (say, 50-60 degrees C at the tube). Also, its not hot enough to melt those cheap $3 end caps :D

Ballast...those ballasts are rated for ~110 watts (i.e. 4X30WX88%) ...don't expect them to get hotter than 40 degrees C.

As for starting...it uses instant start mechanism...no flickering...no funny noises. Just starts...and it takes 5 minutes to get to maximum intensity. Expect a 5 to 10% drop in output in the first 100 hours. During the first 5 minutes, expect some light swirling inside the tube -- this is normal. Expected lifetime of tubes...about a year. At $3.50, I don't mind replacing them every 6 months :)

- Victor.

[reefburnaby]

Hello,

Here it is....

[ajx22]

reefburnaby
As the Title says...all I can say is WOW!!! :bigeek:


I'm VERY impressed with this lighting idea and it's presentation...as well as all of the other posts you have replied to!

If you're interested...I think that you would make a great addition to the "DIY - Do It Yourself" forum as well as our other forums as a Moderator. Dman, REEFIN GEEK, canadawest and Asmodeus do a :D GREAT :D job here...but I'm sure that they would agree that we could use your assistance to help grow this section with true knowledge and experience.

If you're interested...please send me an e-mail to AJ@AquariumPros.ca (mailto:AJ@AquariumPros.ca) so we can discuss it!

Thank you regardless for your very knowledgeable and in-depth replies!!!

I look forward to talking with you and reading your posts/replies!

Regards,

[Dman]

reefburnaby,
Here is another neat trick you can use. instead of having a ground near the bulb, I use aluminum tape over the top half of the bulb from end to end. Works great and reflects all of the light back through the tube that used to bounce of my reflector and bounce and bounce and bounce. Why pay for a fancy internal reflected bulb? especially if the orientation of the internal reflector doesn't jive with your setup, you know?
Derek

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Neat trick...I'll try it out, see what happens and take some measurements.

Actually, the ground for the reflector is required by regulations -- EMI emmissions. I didn't make the rules, I just followed them.

Some instant start ballasts don't work without a ground nearby...

Hope that answer's your question.

- Victor.

[Dman]

Then you could run a small wire from just under the aluminum tape and attach it to the ballast, just run the wire down along side of the endcap wiring, that should solve the problem, no?

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

That should be fine....

- Victor.

[Loppdawg69]

Reefburnbaby i need your help. =)
I am attemtping a very similar setup and am having troubles getting my lamps to start...can you email me at loppdawg69@hotmail.com i can take pictures if needed.
Nathan

[Mort]

Hi, I realise this is an OLD thread but I am confused and I have a question about the ground for this set up.

If you were to just ground the ballast itself to the third prong on an electrical plug would that eliminate the need for having a ground near the bulbs themselves?

I am familiar with electricity and wiring but not with the priciples of Fluorescent bulbs (lamps-whatever). :sorry:


:thanks:

[ajx22]

Mort,

Welcome to AquariumPros.ca Forums.

In respect to your question - the ground that you mention is fine for the ballast - but you also need to ground the reflectors too. Just do as Dman suggested in an earlier post.

[Mort]

Thanks for the warm welcome!

I finally had time to complete the project and I am just THRILLED with the results so I thought I would share...

Before...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid79/pd35dc59bc1bb2645018995daacd6a834/fb1db3c4.jpg

After...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid79/pe0bf05f273b37e0483f6f3019056ae00/fb1db3c7.jpg

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. I am so glad this worked!

~Mort

[kolorado]

1. Welkin Electronics, a fast grown-up professional T8/T12 Electronic Liner Fluorescent Ballasts manufacturer in China with 10+ years experience exporting to USA, 120V and 277V, UL and FCC approved, best quality. We have 2-Lamp-T8 (Two or One Lamp Operation) and 4-Lamp-T8 (Four or Three Lamp Operation). Ballast 1*32W/2*32W/3*32W/4*32W could operate lamps of F17T8 24 inch, FB24T8 16.5 inch, F25T8 25W 36 inch, FB31T8 31W 22.5 inch, F32T8 32W 48 inch, F25T12 and F40T8.

2. We could guarantee the quality as the counterparts from Advance, Sylvania, Robertson and Howard etc.
* Feature the highest quality components available, 100% factory tests
* Meets ANSI Standard C82.11-1993 and ANSI Standard C62.41-1991.
* Meets CSA Standard 654 for Ballast Efficiency
* Meets Energy Star Requirements for (2,1) F32T8, (2) F25T8 and (2) F17T8
* Meets FCC Part 18 (Class B) and CSA, EMI/RFI requirements, Consumer Limits.
* 120V/277V, +/-10%, 60Hz, PF≥0.99, THD≤10%, life span≥5 years.



Your further comments would be highly appreciated.
Best regards
Mr. Paul Boswell E-mail: lw@welkin.net.cn (lw@welkin.net.cn)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zhenjiang Welkin Electronics Co., Ltd.
Address: Jing wu Road, Zhenjiang Economic Development Zone, Jiangsu, China (212009)
Tel: 0086-511-8886348 Fax:0086-511-8886216 Website: http://www.welkin.net.cn (http://www.welkin.net.cn)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------




http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=90&highlight=F32T8 (http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=90&highlight=F32T8)
<HR>Hi,

Well...I don't know where to start...its going to a long one..

Objective:
To produce a lighting system that produces the same amount of light as SHO without an Icecap. Around here an Icecap 660 is about $270 each. Pretty expensive for a ballast that delivers 65W to a F40T12.

Theory:
F32T8s (the thin tubes - 1" diameter) -- these lamps produce 2600 to 3000 lumens of output and consume 30W of lamp power. So, it produces 86 to 100 lumens per watt.

F40T12s (the thick tubes - 1.5" diameter) -- these lamps produce 3000-3300 lumens and consume 40W.

VHOs (F40T12VHO) -- these lamps produce roughly 6000-6500 lumens of output. I am not sure, but some manufactures say that their output decreases to 4000-5000 lumens after 1000 hours. These lamps consume 110 W.

PC (PL-L 55W) -- these lamps produce roughly 4500 to 5000 lumens of output and consume 55W.

So, we need a F32T8 that glows as bright as VHOs or PCs...say 5000 to 6000 lumens. Based on F32T8's efficiency of 85 lumens per watt, we need roughly 70W or 240% output of F32T8s. There will be some drop off in the efficiency due to heat - so we might need 80W. How do we do that ?

Each output on the ballast is responsible for delivering power to a tube ... lets suppose we hooked up the ballast outputs in parallel. Say, we had a ballast that can drive 4 seperate F32T8s. If we hooked up all the outputs of the ballasts together...we would deliver about 400% output to the lamp -- or drive the power required to drive 4 lamps in to one lamp. Now...this only really works for electronic ballasts and I waive any responsibility if somebody does this...and burns their reef down or injuries themselves. :) Don't try this on a magnetic ballast...they work on a different principle.

Materials:
- F32T8 fluroescent tubes (6500K GE - $3.50)
- 4 tube F32T8 electronic ballasts from your local hardware store. I used an Advance REL-4P32-SC - which I got from Home Depot ($30).
- End caps ($3 pair)
- Wire nuts. ($0.20 each)
- power cable - ($3)
How I did it:

I wire all of the yellow wires to one side of the tube and all the red+blue wires to the other side of the tube. This should deliver 4x the output of a single tube. Since 4P32-SC is a standard ballast, it will only deliver 88% of the 30W for F32T8 -- its a standard practice to save power for indutrial/office lighting.


~350% (=88% X 4) should deliver 9000 lumens (350% X 86 lumens X 30W). I took a light reading with my camera and I got 6500 lumens. So why a difference...

It turns out that parallel overdriving does always 4x the power of one ballast -- this is due to the fact that it wasn't engineered or design to operate like this. I measured the power consumed by the ballast through the AC outlet, and it was 80W. So, 80W is actually being delivered to the tubes -- so that means 80W X 86 lumens/watt = 6900 lumens. Okay...close enough.


Those Who Dare to Try:
I would start with 1x drive first and measure the power consumed by the ballast. Then, I would try 2x...then 3x and finally 4x. Since each ballast will be different, results may vary. Personally, I would limit overdriving to 90W or less. :D

So...there you go. 6000 to 6500 lumens for $40....its being working for me for about 2 to 3 months. :D

- Victor.
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