Hello, I am new here and I need your help

[Jay]

Hello folks,

I am going to be setting up a 77Gallon saltwater tank.

I have 50lbs of premium fiji live rock coming this weekend.

My question is, can I use Silica sand for my DSB or even Sandbox sand?

I am going to be using a Fluval 404 for my mech filtration but I plan on making my own trickle filter within the next month or so.

I will also have a 301 powerhead going as well.

Another question, do I need shrimps and crabs for a DSB? or will the microworms and star pods be the key to a healthy DSB.

Thanks greatly for any help you guys can shed on my situation.



Jay:fish:

[Jay]

Ok, I just found out that I shouldn't use Silica sand as it has a high phosphate content and it packs to tightly and would creat problems.

My #1 concern is. Would a bare bottom tank with live rock be enough? Can I use playbox sand ? My brain is about ready to explode! AHHHH! :eek1:

[Jay]

I am also reading in other places that Silica sand is OK for a DSB? hmmmm.. but I am also hearing that in do time you will have to add buffer.

would 2-3 inches of crushed coral be my best bet? it's a 77gal 40-50lbs fiji live rock "soon to be here"

I know that the coral will buffer my water to 8-8.2 but will it house my little critters like the pods and micro worms etc.

[Archie]

Sand grain size is the key to a dsb. Silica sand is close to the ideal size for harboring beneficial life forms such as worms and pods. Some shrimps (pistol), crabs (arrow) and starfish (sand sifting) are predators of many dsb critters and should be avoided.
The commercialy available and relatively expensive Carib-sea Aragamax and the hard to find and relatively inexpensive Southdown Playsand are the safest bets.
For the added advantage of denitrification you should have a depth of at least 4"- 6" for anaerobic conditions to occur. Here is a link to a great sandbed depth calculator: http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/SandBed.htm

Also do not depend on your substrate to aid in buffering your system. A PH drop that would dissolve the sand bed would prove lethal to your inverts first. Use a two part additive such as B-ionic or plan for an addition of a calcium reactor. Regular water changes are also an excellent resource in maintaining steady water parameters, replenishing spent elements and exporting excess nutrients.

Have a look at this informative thread on silica sand and skillfull methods in acquiring Southdown sand: http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=732.[/url]

Also see this link for the definitive dsb article: http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm/1999/june/features/1/default.asp

Drop AJ an email and see if he has made any progress in bringing in another line of substrate. I know that he was working on becoming an exclusive Canadian dealer of a certain brand.

Also a member of this board had some Aragamax sand available locally at a very good price : http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=703

[Jay]

Thanks alot for your reply :)

I have been doing some reading, and yes.. Silica is OK but it doesn't really help in buffering the water to maintain a steady high PH of what I expect.

I have a Home Depot here, so I will go over there and check if they have southdown playsand. If not.. how about a 4 inch layer of silica and 2 inches of crushed coral?

If I went that route, would that ratio buffer my water for me?

Thanks again

[Archie]

I would'nt rely on the sand bed to act as your buffer. If your PH were to drop to a level that would dissolve aragonite or crushed coral not much livestock would survive anyway. Instead use additives, dose kalk with your top-off water, do regular water changes and maintain an appropriate bio-load for your tank to prevent the causes that would affect your ph, such as overfeeding and polluting your system.

You may not find Southdown in Ontario, I'm not sure about Michigan however. The link I posted was in regard to New York state.

4" silica and 2" cc is okay. Ron Shimek said that you shouldn't have any more than 15% of the coarse stuff in relation to the fine grains.

[Jay]

Thanks Archie

I just got back from home depot and they dont have southdown sand, so I went to the petstore and got 20KG of #2 crushed coral, it is pretty small.

Can I use Baking Soda to keep my PH high? just like you do with african cichlids?

Thanks

[Archie]

From what I've seen, the major ingredient of most buffer additives is exactly that, baking soda. I like the commercial products myself, since they are prepared for reef and marine aquarium use. They also contain some beneficial trace elements and some claim to have coralline accelerators. I have used Kent's Pro-Buffer dKH with good results in the past.

Mind you, if you conduct regular water changes, you shouldn't have to worry too much about replenshing these elements. Providing your bio-load does not require it.

[Jay]

Thanks Archie

Doesn't backing soda give you a PH of 8-8.2 no matter how much you throw in the tank?

I ended up getting 20kg of #2 crushed coral "it's fairly small" and I have around 1 3/4- 2 inches of it across the bottom of my tank.

I really don't feel like spending money on those additives, do any of you guys use baking soda? say a couple teaspoons with every water change? I am pretty sure no matter how much you add it will only buffer your water to 8-8.2 correct?

thanks again! you guys are a great help!

[Sohal Tang]

i WOULD AVOID both the play sand and the other....
Crushed Coral would be, in my opinion, best.....

Product called SEAFLOOR
is also great!

[Mitchell]

My question is, can I use Silica sand for my DSB or even Sandbox sand?

Stay away from the silica, as for the playsand, you should only use Southdown. It is not available in Canada, only in the states.

I would recommend caribsea sand and NOT crushed coral.
I have used playsand from the states but found it to be too messy as it seams to blow around easily. That being said though, i would use it again but mixed with caribsea.

The key to a good bed though is the grain size and the thickness of the bed.
Crushed coral in most cases is to coarse for most fauna to live in.

You are going to find that everyone has different opinions on just about EVERYTHING in this hobby, and oddly enough it all works the best, THEIR way ;)

READ READ READ READ READ READ
take a break then READ some more :D

Think about the bed though.
It will be much easier to spend the extra now and do it right, then to go with the CC and then change over to sand later

just my .02

[ajx22]

Great sand bed info:

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=408

[ScottM]

There is nothing wrong with using silica sand (afterall, glass IS silica). I agree with Archie - a mix of silica and aragonite would work just fine.

Scott

[IJO]

Jay,

Could you send me your plans on how your going to make your own trickle filter? I also have a 77gla with a Fluval 404... 4 inch coral SB and about 65lbs of L/R. I feel like there is something missing. Anything will help.

IJO

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Silica sand is fine as long it is properly washed and it contains no contaiminiants. Something like sandblasting sand is very pure and it can be used succesfully in reefs. There is no need for crush coral since the granuals are too large to be very beneficial for the sand bed. Crush coral is also known to contain phosphates....which can't be good if they decide to leach out. In theory, it is possible to obtain sufficiently low pH inside your sand bed to dissolve calcium based sandbeds.

If you find builting a sandbed a hassle, then it is better to go with no sandbed with a refugium than to build a bad sandbed.

Since you live pretty close to the US border, you can drive to the US and buy some Southdown playsand (its a caribean playsand which is calcium based, rather than silica based). Many reefers have succesfully used this type of playsand.

Hope that helps.

- Victor.