Filter media - Yes or No?

[Mugster]

I'd like to hear your opinion on using filter media. When I setup my 180 I used a 55 gal for a sump. Inside the 55 I used a 20 gal tall with the bottom removed and filled with bioballs and filter media. Approx. 1/3 of the sump is a refugium. The tank is now 6 months old and the bioballs have been gradually removed. My question is should I also remove the filter media and just allow the water to circulate relying on the LR to do the actual filtration? The filter media does remove quite a bit of waste matter and has to be changed every few weeks at which point water no longer pass through it and backs up. Would the LR be capable of removing all the waste that the filter media did? Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. TIA

Kev :)

180 gal
55 gal sump with refugium
180-200 lbs LR
4-6" DSB
Softies
3 Anenomes
10 Fish
Blue Legs
Scarlets
Emeralds
Bumble Bee snails
Turbo Grazers
Olive snails
3 MJ600, 2 MJ900 for circulation
Mag12 return
2 Iwasaki 6500k 250w
1 Iwasaki 6500k 400w
2 70" URI VHO Actinic
DAS protien skimmer
DIY Kalkwasser Reactor

[afss]

not that i have seen many tanks, but the majority of the ones i have seen don't typically use any real filter media. Most that i have seen have a sump, skimmer, live rock, and possibly DSB, a few with refugiums.
I used to run filter media on canister when i first started in the hobby but that was on a small 29 gallon tank and i had no room for a sump. I curently have a 90 gallon with DSB live rock. The original 29 gallon is my sump, and i have 2 inline refugiums. The introduction of the refugiums was one of the best things i have added.
What i have done is to put a layer of granular type cc in the sump. (for some reason the bristle worms etc seem to like this better than sand). All of the dtrius etc settles out eventually in the bottom of the sump, and the LOADS of worms i have make quick work of it.
If you decide to go with no media and want some worms to dump in you sump, let me know.. I got tons of them. As always the worms are first come first serve and on availability. I also have calurpa if you want some for a refugium or for your sump.

Scott

[ajx22]

Originally posted by afss
If you decide to go with no media and want some worms to dump in you sump, let me know.. I got tons of them. As always the worms are first come first serve and on availability. I also have calurpa if you want some for a refugium or for your sump.

Scott

:bigeek: And Scott has some MONSTER worms happening too! :bigeek:

:D

[Flatlander]

Scott, do the worms not get sucked or crawl into your skimmer or main pumps?

[stephane]

Media filter are detritus trap, and nitrate factory
unless you change the fiter each week or bleach it !

Let your sand and live rock do the trick!

[afss]

I have my skimmer set up to be "self leveling" and it is plumbed so that the overflow from the main tank passes through it. It then dumps into the sump. The sump has about 2 inches of cc in it, and my return pump is inverted such that the intake is on the top side. I am sure that some worms and pods get sucked through it, but i have so many worms that it hardly matters if i loose a few to the pump gods.

I also have no lighting over my sump and have some interesting sponges growing in it. the only light it gets is from the surrounding room as my stand is not enclosed yet(one of those projects i'll get around to some day). I feed the worms ever few days 10-15 sinking shrimp pelets as well as what ever food makes it there from the main tanks feedings. I do have my 2 refugium/breeder tanks lit and they also have worms and pods, but the worms seem to trive more in my cc than they do in the DSB of the tank and fuges.

I agree with stephane on the filter pads being a detrius trap, but i would STRONGLY advise against using bleach on anything going in your tank. Even if you use the proper procedure to neutralize the bleach there is always a chance that you mess up and don't get it all etc.

IMO just don't use filter media.

[Mugster]

Thanks for the advice and tips. :) I suspected the filter media wasn't exactly beneficial but just wanted to ask some fellow reefers with more experience and knowledge than what I currently have. I'm going to remove it and see how things work out.

BTW, if anyone is looking for bioballs I have 600 I'm looking to sell for $40 obo. They're washed and ready to use again.

[stephane]

Originally posted by Mugster
Thanks for the advice and tips. :) I suspected the filter media wasn't exactly beneficial but just wanted to ask some fellow reefers with more experience and knowledge than what I currently have. I'm going to remove it and see how things work out.

BTW, if anyone is looking for bioballs I have 600 I'm looking to sell for $40 obo. They're washed and ready to use again.

Don't get rid of them at once get them off a couple each day!!!!!

[afss]

again in agreement with stephane.. the media, after its been in the tank for awhile, also gains the ability to process amonia and nitrite. If you remove all of them at once you could get a spike.. if you only have one then it would be no different than replacing it on a normal change. If you have more than one it will give your system a chance to adjust and take over the bacterial end of the filtering process from the pads if you do a more gradual shift. Less chance of a spike etc.

Scott

[Mugster]

Out of the total of 600 bioballs only about 100 were left in the tower as I've been removing them gradually over the past two months. I removed the filter media and replaced the eggcrate supports and drip plates (which were covered in slime which I assume is the bacteria?) so hopefully there won't be too much of a spike.

Once again thanks for your help. :)

Kev

[stephane]

Hey Doug what about taking those old wet dry filter put egg crate
+light and make them some sort of algea scruber. they could even
be plug on to a wave maker What do you tink about it ?:idea:

[Flatlander]

Scott, thats an interesting sump. I use to have a 55 gal rubbermaid sump with a 4 inch sandbed. I found it to fine over the long run. I had my Euroreef elevated on some eggcrate.

Stephane, I have seen that done before. Eggcrate covered with screen. Grows nice algae, as long as there is enough light for it. As its not dumping and has a flat surface, water retention can be come backed up by to much algae growth. One must make sure it has another route to the sump.

Not sure how good it works, dont see many doing it.

[Mugster]

One question about the algae scrubber idea. Would that not seed the main tank with unwanted algae? How would you confine it to the sump area alone?

[Flatlander]

Depends on the algae, I think. My ATS screen uses turf algae for scrubbing. This type of scrubber & algae growth does not spread to the tank. As a matter of fact it pretty well inhibits tank algae growth, except for the film algae I get from overfeeding.

I have heard of the calerpa type filters,{ they are not scrubbers}, spreading to the tank. Mine never, when I tried it, because it went asexual to fast. FWIW, I dont know if the MM calerpa based filters spread to the show tank or not.

So if one was to go with Stephane,s idea & was able to get some nice turf algae growing, it may work well. I dont think hair algae will spread to the main tank either, but its not the best for removing organics.

Also I found that lighting my sump was kind of a pain. Unless its strickly a sandbed/algae filter. I had to block light from my skimmer, reactor, probes, etc. Also I figured the 175 watts I was using, could go to the main tank instead.

I do like Scotts sump idea & may well do that.

Furthermore, on the main question, I see nothing wrong with putting the screen in the trickle portion & getting some kind of a light for it. I would think as long as you keep the screen well scraped, it may work fine in assisting the filtration. Any type of algae will assist in the removal of ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, heavy metals,etc. The only question would be, is how much the small amount of algae would be assisting the filtration & if its worth doing. My scrubber screen, for instance, is 24in. by 10in.

[Dman]

Mugster,
Using a filter media is fine as long as you are prepared to change it at least once a week.
Personally, I would skip the filter media as there are quite a few filter feeders on a reef and you find the media eliminates most of the fine particulate that they feed on.

There are almost as many ideas for algae/turf scubbers out there as there are personalities. The trick to scrubbers is to remove the growth before it dies off.
(sorry I joined in on this one so late)
Dman
:spin:

[Flatlander]

I dont think turf algae in a scrubber will die if not harvested. It does throw the dump tray off balance though.

However, calerpa algae grown in an algae filter compartment, will die or go asexual, or whatever its called,:) , if not harvested. There are kinds that dont though, or at the least seem to be much hardier. I also seems other methods of removing organics, such as skimmers, sometimes starves the algae & causes the same problems.

If/when I ever do a refugium,{ which is not meant as an algae filter}, it will have types of sea grass & other algaes like mermaids brush, etc.

[Mugster]

It's been almost a week now since I removed the last of the filter media and bioballs. No significant change in any of the params and the water is crystal clear. All the filter feeders seem to be much happier now, as the food that goes down the overflows now gets returned to the tank in much smaller particles instead of being trapped by the filter media. Thanks for all your help. :dance:

[afss]

glad to hear that its working out for you.

Scott