curing dead liverock

[JeffD]

hi there, i have a lfair bit of what used to be liverock with a setup i picked up. I've been told to use it as a base for fresh liverock i should cure it and check the water for phosphate. Can someone give me a few tip on doing this. I have a rubbermaid container and was going to
put a small portion of the dead stuff in the tub with some RO salt water. Any idea how long this needs to sit before i should take a phosphate reading? Should i also have a heater and powerhead in the tub while its sitting?

thanks, Jeff

[canadawest]

Hey Jeff, welcome to the board.

I cant tell from your post if you have a tank setup yet or not. If you are setting up a new tank, you can just put the new rock you got into it and it will become "live" as the tank cycles.

If you have a tank already established, the rubbermaid idea is fine. Yes you should have a powerhead for circulation, and a heater to maintain proper temperature (78F-82F).

There should be no "phosphate" reading coming from live rocks. What you will get are ammonia, nitrite and the finally nitrate readings as the live rock "cures". First the old organics will die off (if there are any) and cause an ammonia spike. This ammonia will cause bacteria to begin to grow on the rock which breaks down the ammonia into nitrites, then another form of bacteria will grow on the rocks which converts the newly formed nitrites to harmless nitrates. It is this bacteria that makes the rocks "live".

It would be helpful, but not necessary, to have some lighting over the rocks as well to help promote growth of any life that may still be on the rocks, like coraline algae, feather dusters, or any coral life. (Depending on how long it's been out of water). After a few weeks if you test the water and get a '0' reading on ammonia and nitrites your rock is "cured" and ready to go into your main tank.

If you have an established tank with a bunch of live rock already, you can also add a few pieces of your new "dead" rock every week or so. It will cure naturally and become "live" without affecting your tank very much as the established rock will help cure it quickly, and critters will habitate it.

[JeffD]

Andrew, the tanks is not up and running yet but hoping to get water in it over the next 3-4 weeks. Still have so much to do
with prep work. Getting there though, but slower than i thought :) I've decided to take as much time as it takes to try and get at least most of it right the first time..(ok then some of it right!)

The rock i got with the system has been sitting dry for a few years. I still have it in boxes and would like to be able to use it as a base for some live stuff to sit on top of. Once i have all the details taken care of to where i'm ready to start adding di\ro water i am not clear as to
the order in which the next steps need\should be done.

what i'm trying to grasp the order of is the following

1-adding water
2-adding my dead live rock
3-adding substrate
4-adding fresh live rock
5-cycling the water

what i'm having probs figuring out is that i will not know how much water to add or leave out due to the fresh liverock going in. I'm thinking to start by putting in my dsb first, then my dead live rock as a base after its been tested and deemed safe to use, then adding my di \saltwater to cover this.
Maybe let this cycle for a few weeks and when ammonia and nitrate levela are down then go and get the liverock i need and top up again with saltwater. This would mean another cycle process i guess to let the lfresh liverock then cure. I somehow think this 2 step cycle\cure process can be avoided.

Here is idea #2
add dsb and fill 180 gallon 1\2 to 3\4
full. wait a week or 2 and then add the tested dead rock and fresh live rock at the same time and wait till curing process is done. The prob i have with this is i will not know how much llive rock i actually need until i get the dead stuff in place as a base first.

Maybe i'm over thinking this to much, but i'm really trying to think it out properly so i know i get enough liverock and or not too much.

thanks for you patience in advance :)

[Dman]

JeffD,

Ahh.. The joys of setting up a new tank. I don?t envy you, but the grief will be more than worth it. And you?re right, doing it right the first time will save you a boatload of hassles later.
Curing ?dead? live rock is really pretty simple; especially if it has been sitting around dry for an extended period of time. What you?re trying to do is ?fill? the rock with the proper bacteria, so to speak. So if you are starting out with a new tank you get to do the whole thing at once and skip a whole bunch of crap in the middle.
Here is what I would do, place the sand in first, the rock in second. Do not under any circumstances add RO water that has not been mixed to the proper salinity, you?ll end up with the wrong type (freshwater) of bacteria in the DSB, not a good thing. When I set up my 200 I picked up enough Rubbermaid containers to mix the water outside the tank, all at once. (Here?s a trick to help speed things up, find someone local or perhaps an LFS who is going to do a water change, or better yet a couple of people and ask them for the discarded water, natch ;))
Throw in a couple of power heads, turn on your circulation pumps and wait for the water to clear. This may take as long as a week. A skimmer can help pull out a lot of the free-floating particles, but try to resist. The free floating stuff will eventually settle as silt on the bottom and is extremely beneficial to a DSB.
After a week, blow off the dust from the rock with a power head; all the while a fresh raw shrimp can be rotting in the bottom.
Keep an eye (test) on the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates, once they have leveled off you can start up your skimmer. Get a good test kit, skip the Red Sea brand, and get Seachem or Lamotte kits for the aforementioned parameters, you?ll need them for the first 18 months.

Things to watch for:

Ammonia should skyrocket and then plummet
Nitrites will skyrocket as the ammonia crashes
Nitrates will rise as the nitrates fall
Diatom bloom (a couple of weeks after the nitrates level off everything will be covered with a brown messy algae, ride it out it?ll die off in time)

After all of this, your dead rock should be live rock and you?re well on your way. Patience is not a virtue in this hobby; it?s a necessity.
Dman
:spin:

[JeffD]

Thanks for the info Dman :)

Gee, thats allot of rubbermaids...Same would apply here also for the 180. I guess without a submersible pump to pump the saltwater from the rubbermaids you would need to be pretty strong to lift them up to dump them in..I wonder if i could add the water to the tank then add the salt mix first..no
sand yet. Then when the salt is disolved
with my tankful of di water i could then put the sand in. I realize the sand storm may be worse doing this but the water
getting into the tank part will be allot easier on the arms. I plan on bringing in 3 x 45 gallon drums of di water and gravity feed them into the tank. I fugured the 3 x 45 = 135 galllons would be ok for as the sand and rock may make up the balence of the tank volume. Maybe 135 gallons is way to much water due to the dsb and 180-200 lbs of rock i plan on putting in.
What are your thought on this? I would not add the sand or LR until the salinity is correct within the tank.
thanks Jeff

[Dman]

JeffD,
You'll be amazed at how much water sand will hold, it might as well not be there.
THe DSB on my tank takes up about 30 gallons of room but held 20-25 gallons of water.
I keep 3- 45 gallon Rubbermaid containers around and use them all the time. One to hold my RO top-off water, one to mix change water and one for waste water.
You really don't have to add ALL the water at once, but try to get enough water to submerge a powerhead or two to start some flow going and to bring the temperature up.
Trust me you don't want to add the sand after the water, the storm would be horrendeous. A comparison would be a summer wind storm to a hurricane.
I know adding the water will be hard on the arms, but you only have to do it once :>