Live rock Info

[Danno]

Never mind..I did some more searching and found my answer.:P

[maimz]

Someone in my area has some live rock that was taken out of a tank he bought that was then converted into a freshwater setup...it is now dead..i was wondering if this could be any use to me as far as using it for an underlay for the actual live rock that i plan on getting in the near future...any help would be greatly appreciated!! also..if being used with real live rock will this eventually hold bacterial colonies in the same manner that the live rock will......also...if i can also get some substrate from them..is it now useless or dangerous if i can get some of that from a previously aquarium setup? thanks again

[ajx22]

Originally posted by maimz
Someone in my area has some live rock that was taken out of a tank he bought that was then converted into a freshwater setup...it is now dead..i was wondering if this could be any use to me as far as using it for an underlay for the actual live rock that i plan on getting in the near future...any help would be greatly appreciated!! also..if being used with real live rock will this eventually hold bacterial colonies in the same manner that the live rock will......also...if i can also get some substrate from them..is it now useless or dangerous if i can get some of that from a previously aquarium setup? thanks again

Get the rock from him! You will have to cure it again, but once introduced to new LIVE rock...then it will re-seed again over time.

As for the substrate---you will likely want to bleach it and rinse it VERY WELL numerous times. This will get out any impuraties.

Both will be fine if you pre-treat them correctly. DON'T just put the stuff in your tank.

HTH

[maimz]

AJ..you are truly a wealth of information...btw..this doesnt mean that im not interested in getting a box of live rock from you...it just means 'more more more'!!! thanks

[ajx22]

Originally posted by maimz
AJ..you are truly a wealth of information...btw..this doesnt mean that im not interested in getting a box of live rock from you...it just means 'more more more'!!! thanks

Hey maimz...

No problem at all...I don't in ANY WAY know it all (oh sooo far from), but what I do indeed know, I try to share as much as possible. I know that I had 16 Million questions when I started into this hobby...and I didn't have sources like the internet to get real answers. I bought books and then I read and I read and I read...and I continued to get mixed and opposing thoughts and opinions on all the things that I was questioning...so I just ended up even more confused! :mixed:

This was why I have set-up this forum for everyone. I know that there are some great forums out there (Reef Central), but they are dealing with US based information and solutions. Anyone who has looked into US info...knows that just because it's in the US - doesn't mean that it's available to Canada. So...this is a place that us Canadians get to chat about what WE can do. ;)

As much as I really want to take every last cent of everyones hard earned money :dance: ;) - I also want to make sure that everyone has a stable and well set-up system first and foremost...this way I can sell tons of stuff to HAPPY customers! :D

I'm glad that you are finding the information provided here helpful! I wish you nothing but success in your ventures with your captive reef. You are doing the most important thing...LEARNING from others! Keep up the good work!

Best regards,

[Greg Moore]

I would avoid the bleach big time. Boiling will also kill anything you don't want and once cooled is harmless. Since most substrate is based on a very pourous aragonite or crushed coral, I would never feel safe using bleach.

Also, since some bleaches (read most) are not pure chlorine you may also add high levels of phosphate, not to mention scents like fake lemon etc. We _don't_ want 'spring fresh' substrate, nor fabric colour rentainers, nor chlorine in our tanks.

Using bleach, to me, is just as foolish as the guy a while back that wanted to use house hold amonia cleaner to cycle his tank!!

Sorry Ajx22, but I think that was a poor tip to introduce to a new reefer. Even iodide or salt/vinager combo's (in the boil) would be much safer, but boiling will not only kill any bad bacteria, it will desolve most of the coatings and discolouration too. Don't boil the rock, just cure it. Give stong consideration before boiling the substrate too unless you believe it will be contaminated with something other then what would turn up in a reef.



Greg Moore

[Greg Moore]

By the way, who has used stuff for sale this close to home? :)

Greg Moore

[ajx22]

Originally posted by Greg Moore
I would avoid the bleach big time. Boiling will also kill anything you don't want and once cooled is harmless. Since most substrate is based on a very pourous aragonite or crushed coral, I would never feel safe using bleach.

Also, since some bleaches (read most) are not pure chlorine you may also add high levels of phosphate, not to mention scents like fake lemon etc. We _don't_ want 'spring fresh' substrate, nor fabric colour rentainers, nor chlorine in our tanks.

Using bleach, to me, is just as foolish as the guy a while back that wanted to use house hold amonia cleaner to cycle his tank!!

Sorry Ajx22, but I think that was a poor tip to introduce to a new reefer. Even iodide or salt/vinager combo's (in the boil) would be much safer, but boiling will not only kill any bad bacteria, it will desolve most of the coatings and discolouration too. Don't boil the rock, just cure it. Give stong consideration before boiling the substrate too unless you believe it will be contaminated with something other then what would turn up in a reef.



Greg Moore

True enough Greg...I was only stating that you very well can not tell what has been introduced to the substrate - and I personally wouldn't want to take a chance with my reef. As I suggested, bleach will work fine as long as it is rinsed VERY well. I have done this to substrate in the past with no ill effects.

I agree that boiling is a very good way to go...however, trying to boil a large amount of substrate...you're going to be there for a very, very long time. (You would want to dump the water after each batch boiled to ensure that anthing released from the substrate is disposed of).

The few times that I have bleached substrate...I have done so in large RubberMaid containers, with a diluted amount of bleach in RO/DI water, and then rinsed it in tubs with RO/DI. After rinsing - I have soaked the substrate in clean RO/DI water over night, and then back to rinsing again the following day. Also...before I add anything to "MY" tank I test for phosphates, etc..

I should have listed my proceedure in a little more detail. I also assumed (my mistake) that anyone trying this would not use a scented or 'enhanced' bleaching product - and only use PURE regular bleach.

As mentioned by Greg...boiling is a good and very safe proceedure for doing this as well. I was only speaking of my personal experiences and the solutions I have found to work.

Hope I didn't mislead anyone.

Good luck,

[Him]

Using bleach, to me, is just as foolish as the guy a while back that wanted to use house hold amonia cleaner to cycle his tank!!


The book Setting Up A Marine Aquariun by Dr. C.W. Emmens says that you can use ammonium chloride to cycle the tank.
Also Aquarium Fish Magazine April 2002 page 46. says QUOTE: You can simply add enough household ammonia - as long as it dosent contain perfumes or dyes. UNQUOTE BY Miller Morgan

I used live rock and Damsels (and got flamed from maimz for using live stock. LOL)

[maimz]

..about cycling with damsels..all i said was 'why distress fish for nothing when there are other ways of going about it'..the live rock thing i can understand but i cant see the fish side of it..also..if dosing a tank with ammonia is an option than why did you bother using fish? i think i will rot a shrimp instead..

'note to HIM'

glad you decided to come over here!! about you wanting more live rock..i am putting together a group buy at the moment ..also anyone else interested contact me or AJ about it..

QUOTED FROM MOPS BB:

HIM ASKED:

I have converted my 35 gallon fresh water tank over to a marine tank. The water and crushed coral has been in the tank for over two weeks with a couple of handfulls of chrushed coral from an established tank to seed the bacteria. Four days ago I added two small Powder Blue Damsels and five lbs. of live rock. Now the questions.

(1)
What is live rock other then real expensive (12.95 per lbs.)? How do I know it is living?
(2)
Has anybody heard of or used algae scrubbers for filtration if so are they worth the expense?

[Greg Moore]

There is only one true guarantee to a healthy happy good looking tank, time, period.

You'll notice that you will never see a question about how to cycle a tank quickly from someone that has years of experience, they know that nothing in a reef tank happens quickly.

You will eventually own something like a toadstool that closes up and wax's over, a newby will toss it after a few days, maybe a week max. An experienced keeper will just ignore it and leave it be for weeks, most of the time it will re-open weeks later.

You will sooner or later buy a fortune in chemicals advertised to promote coraline because it makes your tank look aged. The chemicals will not work, you'll wish you had spend the money on a better skimmer and higher quality lights, then you will anyway.. Then, out of the blue, some time later, coraline will happen, not because you made it happen, just because it was ready to happen.

As a newbie you will buy all the wrong corals for all the wrong reasons, then over time you will buy corals that fit the type of tank and you will probably buy frag's because you prefer now to watch them grow into your tank at their own pace.

As a newbie, you will assume your special secret recipe will get your tank on track in a week or 2, it will appear to do so, then you will buy a ton of corals to make it look pretty, then you will go nuts 6 months later when either red slime, or hair algae show up (sorry, damsels, amonia, human urine *(yes that has come up too) or other chemicals only cycle the big 3, they do squat for everything else). You will learn down the road that no mater what you do, your tank has a great many cycles to go through, and it will do so at its own pace too..

Take your time people!!! The joy in a reef is not the appearance of a pretty tank, the joy is in having built that apearance over time, and having understood what you put in, what makes that creature happy and prosper and that you were able to buy _1_ rock of that blue mushroom (or whatever) and propagate it in just the right places.

I have done all the above (except excelerated cycles) wrong myself. I am just at that point in the curve where big full neat looking corals are meaningless and frag's that attach and grow, or mushrooms that multiply just where I wanted them, is the real joy.

Simple rules, if you choose to join the world of reef tanks, you choose to commit to a lot of money (cheap as hobbies go, expensive as aquaria goes), a pile of time, more learning then you did in high school, probably your first real collection of books and something that make take several years before you are truly happy with the outcome.

Read a lot, as a lot of questions, quick looking for shortcuts, be prepared for hell at times, expect losses (more if you can't do the above well) and be prepared for a fantastic adventure as it unfolds.

Greg Moore

the above is not directed at any one person should it appear that way....

[Danno]

:bigeek: WOW, For the first time on one of these boards a true and honest reply without a flame, lecture or inflated ego behind it. You sound cool! I am just getting into this adventure in life. I have been reading,reading and more reading and I posted a couple of questions on a couple of boards. After a number of flaming, butt chewing, and basically being told that my LFS and I were both pretty much idiots, because I asked a dumb question I have pretty much learned to look and listen and go from there. I was really starting to think there was a ego problem amongst must Reefers but you have renewed my faith in fellow Reefers. Glad to here there are some down to earth people out there. Danno:cheers:

[maimz]

yes..i must admit im lucky to have met up with greg on here and having someone living 20minutes away from me while we both live in the middle of nowhere so to speak....still havent checked out his tank in person but he has definitely spent alot of time learning and experimenting with the hobby and best of all he is willing to help a newbie like me and walk me through the valley of darkness. :) ...AJ has also been very helpful as well! im also in the stage of reading and planning my setup and this time has been well spent!! The latest on one of the lfs in the area is that they have a couple tangs in a 3 gallon eclipse tank...with no skimmer or anything..my buddy asked them how they could possibly think that they could keep these fish alive and they said..well they have been alive for 3 days already and we just use cycle...you would think that cycle was the nectar of the gods around here cuz any store you go into will force feed you with a bottle of the stuff like it is some miracle for keeping fish alive..im almost to the point of getting some humanity groups along with myself to boycott this crap!! its bad enough that they also have some other saltwater fish in a goldfish bowl....unbelievable!!! anyhow..we should all feel lucky to have people who know what they are talking about willing to help out the people that dont and would have otherwise listened to others who dont know what they are talking about...cheers

[Greg Moore]

Kind of funny how different stores work isn't it!? I won't name names for either side of the coin, but I have been in a store that was exceptionally stocked, had very neat displays and was extreemly tidy. Their staff was just plain full of it, they recomended totally insane things and couldn't even cover the common names of their stock let alone proper names.

The other store, also in Toronto, simply looks like, well, crap, it is slightly unorganized, has little or no display structure, can even be a little challenging to walk around at times.

To a beginner the first looks marvelous and the second looks like a place that will certainly close. The beginner then believes the ideas and cures from the first store must be gospel, after all the store 'looks' good. I have found the owner of the second store totally commited to the hobby, highly informed, exceptionally educated in all the corals (full names, requirements etc) and beyond helpfull. And most critically, he doesn't offer advice on things he doesn't know.. This hobby is continual surprises and learning..

As for comments above, thanks a ton, however I neither know it all nor even a decent chunk of what there is to know. I do have a lot of experience (mostly bad) and a great memory. I think all good reefers are happy to lend a hand, some just need to remember to stick with what they have learned and leave their theories to their own experiments.. The best books in the world are still written by only a few people. The Internet is a source of thousands of reefers, add all their views together, shake around a bit then pour out some excellent advice.

Greg Moore