Open Computer: The Smart Alternative to an Apple

[NanoReefaholic]

http://psystar.com/psystar_openmac_osx86_reinventing_the_wheel.html
http://www.psystar.com/shop/openmac.html

The Psystar Corporation has started to sell these PC Mac's, and they'll even install the OS for you!

"...and we will preinstall Leopard for free so you can begin to use your computer right out of the box."


Wow, I knew the day would come where it was available directly from a company outside Apple but I wonder what waves it'll cause.

[in_flight]

wow

is the os really what makes the mac great?

[ajx22]

wow

is the os really what makes the mac great?
Yes - OS X is one of the most fundamental benefits, in addition to a number of other factors like stability and support. Apple systems are now "Intel" based; and as such are made from the same parts as other PC's - however - Apple systems are comprised of only a few specific parts; so they are able to ensure that each part works with the next and write their own drivers, etc. The biggest weakness of PC's is the fact of being an open-system that needs to support countless 3rd party products and drivers. The benefit that most Apple users see is the complete system of hardware + OS.

That said; here is a great read about this 'company'...
http://gizmodo.com/380074/mac-clone-maker-psystar-examined-who-are-they-and-why-are-they-so-shady

And this (back-pedaling?)...
http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/15/psystar-says-rumors-of-its-demise-are-greatly-exaggerated-still/

And more 'conversation' about this 'situation'...
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86218

[NanoReefaholic]

The OS is a huge part of it, but really to be exact it's the GUI. The OS is Unix with an Apple 'skin' on it, still it's a very attractive skin. This is why so many want it and even try to skin Windows to look more Appleish (still not even close to being the same). It has some fundamental differences from other OS's that some may not like but it's just a very nice (for lack of a more appropriate postable word) visual interface which tends to be its main appeal, but not the only one.

The company did this more to provide an alternative to the overpriced hardware that Apple currently sells. While I understand the point that they are trying to make, even to the point of trying to take Apple to court, I disapprove whole heartily with their method of conveying it.

This company is simply hobbyists (yes people hack apple as a hobby) that have gone to the next level and went commercial with this. Normally this wouldn't be an issue but they have done a few big no no's. They have taken the code of other hobbyists and are now selling the 'hacked' versions of the OS (well it's a box version of Leopard with the needed patches) for profit without giving any dues to the coders, and to top it all off they are sending their customers to a Apple hacking web site for support from the coders. Talk about free labour from the very people that coded the hacks which enabled you to even have the ability to even sell these systems in the first place. Grrr.....

I'd post the web site that they linked to in their support page but due to it's nature I'd be better if I didn't but I bet google may help ;)

There have been other company's in the past that have tried to pull the 'only on our hardware' bit in their EULA and lost. Now they are no longer around and I hope Apple doesn't drop the OS or is forced to be more like Windows and support a wide array of configurations. This is one of the huge downfalls of Windows and tends to be why many have problems with their hardware. Trying to correct their mistake they have introduced a stricter QVL in the form of 'Vista compliant/ready' but look at the complaining that has caused. If Apple was forced to do that because of these guys it would be a sad day indeed.

I am by no mean an Apple fanboy, in fact I hate Steve Jobs with a passion, but this is just wrong and I hope they get nailed to the wall. It would be nice if Apple was a more open system like what these guys are putting out and although my Hachintosh runs faster than any MBP or Mac Pro there is two huge differences in this; a) I know how to code and can take from the community while giving back enabling me to run flawlessly while helping others, b) I'm not making a profit off the work of others.

Their site has changed quite a few times since I posted this. They have been reading up and know the community is pissed at them. Even if they win in court (if it makes it that far) or they change their marketing one thing is for sure, owners of these systems are in for a rough ride. Apple gives you support and lets face it, these systems weren't marketed for the tester but rather an end user that has little or no knowledge of programming. There will be problems ahead with updates and no matter what they do it will never be an Apple.

If you want an Apple go buy one, if you want to play with their code than there are better routes. These guys have no business doing this. :angry:

[kgolem]

The biggest weakness of PC's is the fact of being an open-system that needs to support countless 3rd party products and drivers.


But from a hardware developers point of view, the open architecture of the PC platform is much more attractive than the approach of Apple.

But what truly is amazing is that the Apple II which was released in the early 1980's was all about the open architecture concept. The case had a removable panel which allowed access to six or eight I/O slots.

Sometime during the LISA /MAC era, when intel based PC's were in their infancy, there was a total switch in the mentality, where Apple put secure screws on the cases of their machines and the PC opened up with accessible I/O, targeting peripheral developers to support their business.

I find it incredible to watch the progression of these things over the decades and see philosophies switch back and forth between competitors. What is constant is that the loyal followers in both camps will denounce the competitor and champion the favourite, even though a generation ago the ideas were reversed.

No, not off topic

[ajx22]

There are arguments to be had for both sides - and only time will tell...

Some more regarding Psystar:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/04/16/report_waves_caution_at_shadiness_of_would_be_mac_ clone_maker.html

http://gizmodo.com/380488/psystar-exposed-looks-like-a-hoax

http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/16/osx86-project-not-too-happy-with-psystar-either/



Caveat emptor!!!

[Nanoized]

There are arguments to be had for both sides - and only time will tell...

Some more regarding Psystar:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/04/16/report_waves_caution_at_shadiness_of_would_be_mac_ clone_maker.html

Caveat emptor!!!

Looks like time is telling.

Like we didn't already know this.

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/04/11/tech-windows.html

You need twice the hardware to run the outdated legacy ladened pile of poo known as Vista.

Andreas

P.S. I'm an XP user but considering all options for my next machine.

[in_flight]

There are arguments to be had for both sides - and only time will tell...

Some more regarding Psystar:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/04/16/report_waves_caution_at_shadiness_of_would_be_mac_ clone_maker.html

Caveat emptor!!!

Looks like time is telling.

Like we didn't already know this.

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/04/11/tech-windows.html

You need twice the hardware to run the outdated legacy ladened pile of poo known as Vista.

Andreas

P.S. I'm an XP user but considering all options for my next machine.

i might be a little biased since i just upgraded to vista but i like it, the controls and functions are nicer and the fact that i previously had XP makes all the procedures and such a lot more familiar.


that article has the hint of doomsday heresy in it. i mean most smartphones utilize the microsoft exchange server--which iphone will be using also. not to mention that word/excel/outlook/powerpoint are pretty much staples in today's business community, i find it very hard to believe that companies would abandon Windows entirely and say jump to Apples. The costs would be tremendous and the transition in itself is too large and problematic. These are the same factors that are causing them to not adopt Vista in the first place.

you're right about some of the legacy code though, while researching on whether i should stick with XP or adopt to vista quite a few articles mentioned that some of the drivers and code (i.e. fonts and scripts) go back to the early 90's!! you can verify this yourself when you check out the microsoft download page and look at the dates on some of the drivers lol

i think the problem is that microsoft is too scared to start from scratch, why reinvent the wheel mantra might see their diminished market share

[ajx22]

not to mention that word/excel/outlook/powerpoint are pretty much staples in today's business community,

There are many ways to utilize MS Office apps on a Mac or Linux machine.

MS Office2008 for Mac is but one; which I use on my MBP; and IMHO - it is a better product then the PC version of MS Office 2007 (which I also utilize on my PC). Entourage is far superior to Outlook.


i find it very hard to believe that companies would abandon Windows entirely and say jump to Apples. The costs would be tremendous and the transition in itself is too large and problematic. These are the same factors that are causing them to not adopt Vista in the first place.

Maybe not...
http://www.macrumors.com/2008/04/16/ibm-division-investigates-corporate-mac-migration-feasibility/

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/04/16/ibm_launches_internal_pilot_program_to_test_migrat ion_to_macs.html

IBM is one of Microsoft's biggest and oldest strategic partners.

Having worked in the IT industry for ~20 years - IT managers are looking for STABILITY as the #1; second only to the assumption that it can communicate with their existing systems. Apple's and Windows machines can talk to each other without a thought now - so that's no longer an issue. Companies have HUGE budgets for 'tech support' to constantly fix systems that screw-up or have hardware/software failures plus anti-virus and other issues. Moving to a more stable platform would reduce service costs; allowing those funds to be transferred to acquisition instead.


It's also seemingly obvious (to the industry) from the pursuit of Yahoo! that Microsoft is planning a much more web-based company opposed to OS-based. Microsoft has lost money on Vista and Xbox has been a losing division since inception. M$ is definitely looking for 'other' options and avenues to invest in; as they know that "Windows" won't financially carry the company any longer.


The reason for Apple's resurrection in the industry was their dropping the old OS 9 and doing a 100% redesign of the OS (in addition to also adopting the Intel architecture). They were harshly criticized for taking this position; as many Apple supporters felt they were tossing out the baby with the bathwater...but with Apple's market share increasing every day...it looks like it was definitely the right choice.

http://www.macrumors.com/2008/04/16/apples-1q-2008-u-s-market-share-up-from-2007/



All I know is that I have used EVERY OS Microsoft has ever put out. I presently have a machine running XP Pro; one running Vista Ultimate (32-bit) and then my Apple MacBook Pro running OS X Leopard. I can honestly say that the MBP is by far the best computer I have ever owned; and that Leopard is years ahead of Vista or XP in form, function, stability and every other measurable matrix. While Vista has a 'sexier' interface and appearance then XP; I really feel it's little more then a re-skinned XP. I would be devastated (and lose productivity) to have to return to a Windows machine after experiencing the OS X (Mac) difference.

Just my personal http://www.aquariumpros.ca/ajx22/smilies/2cents.gif

[NanoReefaholic]

Those sites that you linked to seem to me to be a bit too much Apple bias. Moving to web based applications is only smart as this is what developers are now programming for ( just look at photoshop ;) ). Those sites make it look like desperation when it could be simple business planning. OS's will move away from the platform that we know today and be very streamlined gateways to their web based GUI programs. Even from a security standpoint this is a smart move on Microsoft's part rather than the desperation that some sites would make it out to be. Apple is a diverse company which is a very good foundation and I can't blame Microsoft for following suit.

As Apples market share grows there will me more interest in hacking it. As of right now it is just a minor part of the market and of no interest or consequence to hackers or crackers. That may change in time as they grow but atm all mobile devices should be OSX as they have a two tier system that is currently more secure. That may change as they become a tasty target though.

Really though this is off topic as the Microsoft vs Apple isn't what these guys were doing, it was Leech vs Apple and how there is an alternative to Apples prices. They are very, very overpriced but they are also very, very sexy rigs... well the Mac Pro is ugly and I'd rather have a custom case but some would call me a phreak so...

Personally I hope nothing happens to Apple out of this. They are arrogant in what they think we can't do but tolerant of us when we prove them wrong. Being Unix based with an Apple GUI their platform is very easy to modify but because it is Unix based and the core based off open source code that is bringing their EULA into debate. Very simply put how can you licence code that is protected under the GNU and then refuse to disclose the source code (there is more to it but that is the gist of it).

There are alot of loop holes that could really hurt Apple (heck there was a licenced OSX86 project by Apple open to developers) but I have a feeling that Apple will just remain silent as this guy has already been shunned by the OSX86 community so he's SOL and will soon just fade away.

Seems that this guy is actually trying to be legit though. I know of one person that has actually gotten their equipment and a few others that have yet to have the money withdrawn from their creditcards (few days now). If it was a scam then he would have just hit and ran but he is starting to deliver... the exact same OS code that is readably available from the usual places outside of Apple.

Still not someone that I'd give my info to but it does prove a point to the general public, there is a choice.

[ajx22]

Obviously - everyone is biased one way or the other...just normally the news misreported is one-sided from M$ (the monopoly) fanboys (like your previous link (http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=33141)). Some of the links I provided were indeed from pro-http://www.aquariumpros.ca/ajx22/smilies/blackapple.gif forums (if you read the 'comments', there are both sides reflected/debated); however others (like the ones below) are from Computer/Electronics Industry sites that aren't . Go figure that something (positive) concerning http://www.aquariumpros.ca/ajx22/smilies/blackapple.gif isn't being reported by pro-M$ reporters or sites. Funny thing that.


Getting back to the original topic of Psystar:
Read/View this article highlighting the countless 'oddities' in play -
http://gizmodo.com/380488/psystar-exposed-looks-like-a-hoax

#1 - lol
http://img.skitch.com/20080417-cp5dgxb8fc9uqby7juq28trkg9.jpg

#2 - scary
http://img.skitch.com/20080417-nwhrkf4p9g8b3ergc4r878tic4.jpg

Another - non-Apple report:
http://www.news.com/8301-13579_3-9920436-37.html

Even more -
http://www.news.com/8301-13579_3-9921271-37.html?tag=newsmap

The payment-processing merchant for Mac clone maker Psystar abruptly ended its relationship with the company Wednesday after it discovered what was for sale on Psystar's site.

Louisa Deluca, vice president of loss prevention for Powerpay, said on Thursday that her company dropped Psystar because it violated the terms of its agreement with Powerpay. She declined to cite specific violations, but said "there are plenty of reasons why we shut the account off. We did not know that's what he was selling, we learned that yesterday."

Regardless; again I say - Caveat emptor !!!

[NanoReefaholic]

Yep, and now he's using PayPal. If he was smart he'd look into other places such as Germany because post sale restrictions such as Apple's EULA aren't valid. EULA's hardly hold any weight anymore but because of where he is... Then again even within the states not all courts agree on the licenced vs sold argument.

For example (US law as this is where he is operating currently);

Step-Saver v. Wise Technologies, Third Circuit Court of Appeals

"a purchaser of a copy of a copyrighted computer program may still sell his copy to another without the consent of the copyright holder."

SoftMan v. Adobe Systems, Federal district court in California

"Software is sold, not licensed"

He may 'move' the company (again lol) out of the states and just 'import' them. Apple really does need to go to court to see if their EULA is even valid, but then again there have been other company's that put restrictions in their EULA just like Apple and lost. Now they are no longer here. As shady as this guy is he may get away with it... if he lasts that long.

[NanoReefaholic]

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1489822

...and the problems begin lol!

[in_flight]

the funny thing is i think of myself as a regular consumer and until i actually needed a new computer i didn't look at the options i had and my 1st choice was a microsoft based computer due to familiarity. now i'm a fan of gadgets and electronics and don't mind paying to get them but right off the bat, apple's pricing is a little steep. now i've never had the opportunity to use or test out Leopard but just comparing the specs on a regular Mac vs a custom or higher end computer and it's hard for me to justify the difference in premium

i'm planning on getting my wife a new laptop in the near future and i might just try out a Macbook just to see what the hype is all about

[ajx22]

the funny thing is i think of myself as a regular consumer and until i actually needed a new computer i didn't look at the options i had and my 1st choice was a microsoft based computer due to familiarity. now i'm a fan of gadgets and electronics and don't mind paying to get them but right off the bat, apple's pricing is a little steep. now i've never had the opportunity to use or test out Leopard but just comparing the specs on a regular Mac vs a custom or higher end computer and it's hard for me to justify the difference in premium

i'm planning on getting my wife a new laptop in the near future and i might just try out a Macbook just to see what the hype is all about
If you can work one - you will easily work the other...they are very similar in the interface.

Here's a just out (May 2008) head-to-head (Mac vs PC / Desktops and laptops) benchmark & usability comparison from Popular Mechanics:
Summation - http://cybernetnews.com/2008/04/17/mac-beats-pc-in-popular-mechanics-benchmarks-but/
Full article - http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/reviews/4258725.html?page=1 (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/reviews/4258725.html?page=1)

I really think that you'd be impressed.

Again - just my personal opinion based on personal experiences and research.

~ Aloha ~

[NanoReefaholic]

A real plus to Macs are that there isn't the 'will this play nice together' aspect. Laptops are generally not as bad as PC's but not all laptops are created equal. If you do your research into the parts and what you wish to do (don't forget the video RAM) then you wouldn't notice a difference with one over the other.

Seems that this guy has set in motion something a bit larger. Even Macworld is now showcasing Hackintoshes (http://www.macworld.com/article/133028/2008/04/building_mac_clone.html) and directly referencing this guy... huh. Funniest part is that I'm running the exact same rig in a different case and I have no issues with sleep or shut down and my processor is recognized. Must either be old Kext files or something he did to his BIOS. Oh, and it took me a whole 5 minutes to install OSX start to end, but then again this is the kind of thing I do so that may have helped.

A properly setup Hackintosh will outperform a Mac Pro at half or less of the cost but if you don't know what you're doing you're gonna have a Macbrick. I wonder if this continues if Apple will build a mid tower, if not I can foresee more companies opening up to do the exact same thing as Psystar.

[ajx22]

err - umm - WOW:

http://gizmodo.com/384302/psystar-wont-let-you-reinstall-leopard-by-yourself