My Black Ocellaris are Spawning!!

[RKelman]

I've had these guys for about a year I'd say. I just noticed the eggs when I got home from work today. You can see them behind my blue Haddoni. Maybe down the road I'll try and raise them. Its been very cool to watch the fish struggle to find out who's the male / female from when they were juvenile to maturity. It used to be the female would nip the male if it came anywhere near the nem. He lived in a Xenia close by. Then all of a sudden he moved in. And now we have eggs.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/Aquarium%20Pics/mini-IMG_1310.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/Aquarium%20Pics/mini-IMG_1309.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/Aquarium%20Pics/mini-IMG_1308.jpg

[vaporize]

Congrats :)

[jwm]

Excellent !! When the fry get large enough I would be interested in a pair ..Congratulations......

[ksalt]

Congrats! well worth the wait, I bet. Keep us posted.:hurray:

[Patwa]

awesome!.....if you're going to raise them, get in contact with one of our resident clown addicts....they need special care...Dman or Vaporize both can help :)

Zach.

[tankies]

congrats!!!! :)

[pdhenderson]

Hope it works well, i would like a pair too!!

[RKelman]

I thought I'd update what's going on with the Clowns. I've decided to try and raise the fry. I don't think I'll have much success with this first batch but It will help me learn anyways. I am going to put a tile under the anemone so hopefully they lay the eggs on it next time so I don't have to try and scoop them out. I bought a 10g tank and a small air pump and I have a 29g I can use for a growout tank. I bought new foam pads for the filter that I threw in my sump to seed them. I had just started my Phyto culture last week from Coralscaping.com which seems to be coming along nicely even though I just discovered I didn't add enough fertilizer to the bottles. (I'm not good at reading directions) I hooked up with Vaporize yesterday and got some Rotifers and his highly concentrated phyto mixture and I got my Rotifer culture going. Hopefully I'm doing it right.. They are too small for me to see if they are dead or not lol. Here's a few updated pics. The ones of the clowns are from Saturday as the anemone is in the way today. The clearer bottle in the picture with the phyto bottles is a Rotifer culture as well as the salt pail. (My wife hasn't yelled at me yet I'm surprised as the salt pail culture is in the dining room) As Vaporize told me I should have 2 batches going in case something goes wrong with one. (in my case something is likely to go wrong with both) I'll update as things progress.


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-P1040079.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-P1040087.jpg

My Haddoni likes to be in this a hole in this large rock. (most like to be between the rock and the bottom) Its a bit of a pain You can see the Xenia in the backround which used to be a large colony is almost gone now.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-P1040095.jpg

Pail-o Rotifers
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-P1040098.jpg

Vaporize's Concentrated Phyto
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-P1040099.jpg

Coralscaping.com's Phyto / Phytovert fertalizer
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-P1040101.jpg

My Phyto / Rotifers
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-P1040102.jpg

[Dman]

Congratulations,
Definitely keep us posted on how things work out.
A quick side note, the air in your rotifer pail looks a little high. Too much aeration will strip the eggs from the parent.
Also, you're more than welcome to stop by our "dungeon" for some tips.
Derek

[RKelman]

Thanks for the offer Dman I will definatly keep posting updates. Where is the "Dungeon" ? I'd love to see your operation. Thanks for the tip on the air. I slowed it down.

[RKelman]

I see some silver eyes! Some are still black. Anyone know how many more days that indicates?

[Waldo88]

Congrats!! you probly know this but when they hatch it will only be at night when the lites go out. Good luck.
:cheers:
</IMG>

[RKelman]

Here's some pics from tonight. You can clearly see the silver eyes.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-P1040208.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-P1040209.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-P1040210.jpg

[vaporize]

did the nest size decreased?

[RKelman]

No not that I can tell. The eggs are just harder to make out in the pictures now I think. I haven't split my rotifer culture yet. I think I've killed it. It does seem to be processing the phyto but its not getting really dense. You said it should get hard to see through right? Its not.

[vaporize]

I said, after you dose the RotFeed, it should be dark enough to just not able to see the bottom of the pail OR if you are using it in the bottle, you should see a tinted green colour.

The rotifers will consume all the RotFeed within 2-3 days depending on how much you feed, so it should get back to the yellowish/transparent colour if you are looking at it in the bottle.

HTH

[RKelman]

Lol I thought the rotifers got dense enough you couldn't see the bottom of the pail. I got the salinity up so hopefully they recover and continue to reproduce. How do I tell when to split my cultures? I added more water to the pail to fill it last night so that was basically a split for it I guess.

[vaporize]

It depends on how concentrated you wanted with your rotifiers culture to be, they multiple pretty fast and you should be able to split them every 2-3 days. But if you wanted to go into that fast production, make you feed less volume but more often.

When you mix the RotFeed with SW, make sure you use either (1) fresh new SW or (2) rotifier water {the latter is used to just simplely sustain a culture as to aim for growth}. Do not use your tank water or your water change water as it might contaminate your culture with other unwanted organsims.

On the side note, make sure you have a stable rotifer culture before you try with your first nest, nothing is more frustrating than to have your fries out of food on the 5th or 6th day, just before they go into metamorphesis.

good luck

[jpdutton]

My B&Ws laid their second set Wednesday night.
I may prepare if they go for a third, I think I will try and fit a tile behind the Anemone to see if I luck out and they use it.

[RKelman]

Thanks Vaporize. Good luck JPDutton I hope you have success with yours too!

[Dman]

JP,
Look for them to hatch 7 days later, ie This Wed night.

[jpdutton]

I can't get a good pic of the whole clutch because the anemone, but this ones bigger than the first

[RKelman]

Very cool JP nice nem too. Last night was night 7 for me and nothing yet. Hopefully tonight!

[RKelman]

Well the eyes started going silver 2 days ago. They were all silver yesterday and today. I think they still look silver I can't really see any bronze. I hope they hatch tonight. I really don't want to be up late Sunday night. Here's some more pics

Silver eyes

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/P1040212.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/P1040213.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/P1040214.jpg

Here's my larvae setup. Its a 10g. I couldnt find any paper but wrapping paper. I think its nice. I have a airstone and a heater in there. The air manifold is so I can tune down the bubbles.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/P1040216.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/P1040217.jpg

Here's what I'm going to use as a growout tank. Its a 29 gallon. I have a Fluval 3 for filtration. (the sponges are in my sump seeding)

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/P1040218.jpg

[ksalt]

Looks like your ready.:bounce1: God! I love coming along for the ride.:hurray:I have my fingers crossed for ya tonight.
What kind/brand of air manifold is that ? I wasn't sure about the plastic ones.

[tankies]

good luck...!!!

[RKelman]

I'm not sure of the brand. I got them at BA's. Thanks KSalt / Tankies

[RKelman]

They hatched!! ugh what a night. I went down to check on the larval tank and the temperature was 90deg. The heater was dying. So off I go (in a snow storm I might add) to <gulp> WalMart for a heater. They are the only thing open at 9:00 at night around here that carries aquarium stuff. I count 53 fry. Some are very active and seem to be feeding the rotifers. Many are just sitting on the bottom doing nothing. I added phyto to tint the water as I have heard this helps. I have to go finish plowing the driveway so I can get to hockey in the morning. I'll post pics tomorrow am.

[mangrove]

Outstanding, thank you for sharing the picture's, it should be interesting to watch the male over the next five to ten days protecting the egg's.

I know someone that would like a pair, if their not all already sold by then :)

-Ryan

[RKelman]

Here's some pictures. I see I have some loss already. I'm having a hard time keeping the temperature up. It dropped to 75. I bought a 50w heater. Its really cold in my basement. (old farm house) I wrapped the tank in a blanket this morning.

Here's a pic of them in the bucket I used to transfer / count them.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-P1040226.jpg

Here they are in their new home

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-P1040227.jpg

[Hippy]

thats awesome man hehe i wish my clowns would mate

[Waldo88]

Thats fantastic and a great job catching them. Now get ready for ano ther batch to be hatched!!

:cheers:

[RKelman]

Well the fry seem to be feeding. I don't know how you could tell they are so small. I'm still having trouble getting the heat to stabilize in the tank. The death toll is 8 as of tonight. I split my Rotifer batch in the pail and I now have 2 pails going. They seem to be multiplying fast. I split my phyto too. I hope I have enough to keep the rotifers fed. I don't even want to think about another batch right now lol.

[Dman]

Change the colour of the sides from white to black as it helps them spot rotifers easier.
Tinting the water with phyto is called co-culturing and it allows the rotifers to be full at all times. (Rotifers has NO nutritional value at all and are therefore no good unless they have phyto in them)
Things to watch for during the larval stage are:
Stray voltage
Temperature swings
Ph
Ammonia
Nitrites
Oxygen depletion
and Physical traps
I'm sure there's more but I can't think of them right this minute.
Keep up the good work and keep us posted.
Dman

[RKelman]

I've lost 14 so far. Only 1 in the last 48 hours so that's good. Hopefully it keeps going this way. I changed the paper on the sides to black plastic so they stay off the sides. I don't really notice any difference though in their habits. I have been putting some phyto in the water as well. Sometimes they hang out on the sides sometimes they swim around the middle. They are noticibly stronger / better swimmers. I need to start thinking about my next food for them. My wife is going to pickup a brine hatchery and eggs tomorrow. Is one of those little ones enough does anyone know? I'd post more pictures but they look pretty much the same... I will after metamorphisis <sp>?

[RKelman]

I got home from work today and my Clowns have spawned again. Exactly 14 days later. There are alot more eggs this time. I have around 40 fry still alive from the last spawn. I haven't had any die in 3 days. Now I think I have too much Rotifers and not enough Phyto.. Live and learn I guess. I only have 1 pop bottle of Phyto ready and 2 5 gallon pails of rotifers. I'm adding phyto to the fry tank as well. It seems to help with feeding frequency and they go nuts when I add it. They eat much better now when there is lots of phyto in the water. I need to find a way to boost my phyto production. I could really use some advice. When I split my culture I add the fertalizer per the instructions. It doesn't say anything about adding more in the 2 weeks it takes to culture.. I also need a second food and I can't find brine shrimp eggs locally. Here's a pic of the new spawn. I count about 270 eggs this time. I couldn't count last time but I think there was only 60-70 eggs last time.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1420.jpg

[donna53w]

Fantastic news! That's a lot of eggs this time. And your Black Ocellaris are beautiful.

I'm thrilled to hear you still have 40ish fry from the first batch. Great job. I can't help with any info re the foods, as I have no experience or knowledge, but I'm sure you'll be getting reliable information from other members.
Keep up the great work ... it takes a lot of commitment & determination & work from the sounds of it, but all so exciting and worthwhile.

[ksalt]

WOW what a beautiful site! Congrats again. I'm glad everything is working out for you. I have heard of refert. during culturing phyto but the trick is to have it all used up before harvesting. I'm no pro only something I have read. Someone more knowledgeable will come along and help you, thou your doing so well already. Good work. pls. more pics!

Mike

[RKelman]

Thanks Donna53w. Ksalt I'll look into that thanks.

[RKelman]

Here's some baby pics. You can see the stripes developing (i think)

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1429.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1433.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1430.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1431.jpg

[JoeWalsh]

Yup, those are the stripes... the hardest part is over! Congrats.


(now where do I sign up for a pair :) )

[donna53w]

RKelman: Great photos!! They are just too darn cute!! Great job!

[pdhenderson]

Its great to see home cultured specimens !! I already bookmarked this thread, sign me up for three!! COD!!!!!!!!!!

PS Keep the pics coming, thanks for sharing, this thread will help others

[RKelman]

I'll keep taking pics. I started my brine shrimp hatchery today.. I'll get some pics tomorrow.

[Waldo88]

Been following along, glad to here you only lost a few. Great job and now you can work on your batch that will be here before you know it.
:cheers:

[ksalt]

"Wow" great pics again! . Can't wait to hear of the Brine shrimp hatchery experience. Thanks

[RKelman]

Well I drove to a nearby city (Kingston) to get my Hatchery. The one I found turned out to be no good. I thought it had a connector for a air pump ect. It didn't. From what I've found out about hatching brine shrimp it was going to be low production. So I made one. I've lost 1 more fry. It got stuck on the ammonia badge that I bought. I bought the wrong one and figured that out last night. I didn't bother taking it out until today... I wish I had taken it out last night. I added a pic of the growout tank. I'm using a Fluval 304 for filtration. I have had the foam pads in my sump for a couple weeks. I need to pickup some bio balls or ceramic rings to fill the chambers. With more fry on the way I'm going to need more filtration. I hope it will be enough. I see lots of water changes in my future.. I also added a current picture of one of the fry just because.
The first hatchery that I'm not using...
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1436.jpg

This is my DIY hatchery. I just stuck a airline tube through the cap and connected my air line.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1434.jpg

Here it is in the tank running. (to keep the eggs at 80deg without needing another heater) I couldnt figure a better way than the clamp. I didn't want it tight to the side (another trap to loose more fry) it sits out a bit because of the trim on the tank.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1435.jpg

Here's my growout tank. Its 29 gallons.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1440.jpg

Here's a pic of a fry at 8 days. You can see the rotifers in the water.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1437.jpg

[RKelman]

Ok my fry are at day 9. Can I use some sort of filtration on the larvae tank? Its a 10g tank and I'm doing 50% waterchanges daily. Its very time consuming. I need to find a way to streamline the process. As well its very costly. Pictures / names of equipment / ideas would be nice if possible.

[vaporize]

have you considered using some sponge filter ? (those air pump kind) If your fries are after metamorphesis, they might not be affected by the air bubble as much.

[Dman]

Seasoned sponge filter.

[RKelman]

Hmm I wasn't notified of the replies this time. i thought you guys were ignoring me lol. I'll have go get some sponge filters thanks for the replys. I'm getting geared up for my next hatch. I picked up another tank / heater ect at BA's in Ottawa while I was in the area today.

[Jeepowner]

this thread has been really neat to follow! Congrats! Awesome pics too!

[RKelman]

Here are some more pictures. I have my second 10g setup and ready for the fry that should arrive tonight or tomorrow night. I used 5g of water from my display so they aren't shocked when I put them in. I hadn't covered the sides yet in the picture but they are covered now. I borrowed a friends digital SLR so I was able to get some decent closeups. The fry are 14 days old at this point.


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/IMG_1472.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/IMG_3821.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/IMG_3825.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/IMG_3877.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/IMG_3878.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/IMG_3880.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/IMG_3881.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/IMG_3882.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/IMG_3883.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/IMG_3887.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/IMG_3889.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/IMG_3890.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/IMG_3894.jpg

[vaporize]

AWESOME ~~!!! Beautiful :)

Remember to keep the water in optimial conditions, black ocellaris might develop flared gills if water conditions is poor.

[RKelman]

Will do thanks Vaporize. I'm doing daily water changes still. I get alot of haze in my water until it matures as we have hard water here. I have no RODI at this point.

[RKelman]

They hatched last night. I counted only 65. I assume the majority must have been anemone food. I hope she lays on the tile next time... Its really a bummer when your expecting 250 and only get 65 :( Here's a couple pics I took before putting them in the larvae tank.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/IMG_3896.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_3895.jpg

[tankies]

nice...congrats...continue the pics pls, thx

[vaporize]

They hatched last night. I counted only 65. I assume the majority must have been anemone food. I hope she lays on the tile next time... Its really a bummer when your expecting 250 and only get 65 :( Here's a couple pics I took before putting them in the larvae tank.


Trust me, you are doing really well for black ocellaris for your first & second catch. The typical industry breeder have alot less "catch" & "raise" rate for this particular species.

Of course species like Tomato you might have 700-1200 eggs LOL

[RKelman]

Thanks Vaporize. I'm more concerned with what happened to the babies? I assume it was the anemone but who knows. I've had no deaths in the new batch yet. They seem more mobile then the last batch. If that means anything.. I fed my 2 week old fry crushed pellets today while I was waiting for my next hatch of Brine which should be tonight. They ate like champs.

[kyle_02]

Amazing Thread... Keep up the good work!!! Definitely will be following this for a while!!!

[pbutkovich]

When you notice that the female has a larger stomach i would put her and the male imto 1 of your other tanks so that the anemone doesn't eat them!

ill follow the thread for a while.:woohoo:

[RKelman]

That could disrupt the spawning process and stress the fish too much I think. Pulling them out of the tank is harder then it may sound too. :)

[vaporize]

When you notice that the female has a larger stomach i would put her and the male imto 1 of your other tanks so that the anemone doesn't eat them!

ill follow the thread for a while.:woohoo:

You really think this is as simple as freshwater breeding eh :P

You touch them or change their environment, they might not spawn any time from 3 months to xx years. ^_^

[RKelman]

Well of the 65 that hatched I have about 5 left. This morning I looked and there was maybe 20 that I could see. Now only 5. I'm not sure what happened as everything was done the same. The only thing I noticed was tonight there didn't seem to be many rotifers in the tank. I had fed this morning before going to work. Perhaps the density just wasn't high enough. There was also some BBS in the tank and some eggs. I assume it came from one of the various utensils I use between everything I have going on. I doubt that's the issue. I do have glass lids on the tank now but I don't see what that would do. The temp ect is good. Unfortunately I think I'm going to have to clean everything and try again in two weeks.

[JoeWalsh]

I hear ya! I've been trying to get my Ocellaris's batches flowing too and I've only just started having success again since the original batch that hatched Jan 19. Those guys have 31 go through metamorphasis and are still doing great today. After that one I let a few batches go because I wasn't ready to try again, then two more 'testing' on what I could leave out of the equation...

My wife told me to smarten up and do whatever I did the first time and get some clowns out of here :) So I focused on this batch like I did the first time. Less than 10 made it to hatch though, and of those I have 5 that are now on day 7.

I think you and I caught the same bit of good luck with our first batches. Hopefully we can both figure out what's missing from that equation that was there the first time, or Vap and DMan can pipe in and say "that's life" and put us out of our misery :)

[RKelman]

I hope yours do better as well Joe. Its really frustrating after all the effort that goes into it. (As I'm sure you know).

[Dman]

I guess this is the part where I chime in with something poignant like: It ain't like growing flowers or some such nonsense.
Fact is, no matter what you do, nothing is ever exactly the same and therefore neither will any of your batches.
Before I get into the nitty-gritty of could have happened, I'd like to cover a couple of basics.
Keep up to date and meticulous notes
Well-fed parents will lay healthy eggs that'll have great hatches; from which the larvae can last as long as 3 days without rotifers, surviving solely on their yolk sacs. This is rarely the case outside of the wild and it's closer to two days IME.
Moving the parents (as Vaporize mentioned) will disrupt the spawning cycle, period. And with blacks, that hiatus will be longer than with just about any other commonly bred species. My experiences have been 8-14 months.
Keep meticulous notes.
Hungry rotifers have the nutritional profile of baked rocks; they're only as good as what you put in them.
Keep meticulous notes
Keep you equipment and utensils sterile or as near to sterile as you possibly can.

Now, as for what may have gone wrong.
Here is where the up to date and meticulous notes come in.
This list is so long that even in person it can take an hour just to cover the obvious stuff.
Here are some things that need to be pretty close to perfect every time:
Rotifer density and nutrition
Phytoplankton
Temperature
pH
Aeration
Lighting
Ammonia neutralization
Bacterium

Standardize as many of the procedures as possible. E.g. one of the things we do is use parent water for hatch out, it’s put in the hatch out tank the day of the hatch with all ancillary equipment (heater and airstone) and then bleached for a minimum of an hour, neutralized and then we make any necessary adjustments to the pH and temperature.

Both you (RKelman) and JoeWalsh are doing very well, but breeding will always remain a puzzle that each of us must solve on our own as everybody’s picture’s just a little different. I can tell you what’s worked for me or for others, but only you’ll know whether it’ll work for you. Some things won’t work at all, regardless of your approach and stuff that’s never worked for me might do wonders for you.

Keep the pics and the questions coming

And one last thing:

BRAVO

Derek

[JoeWalsh]

one of the things we do is use parent water for hatch out, it’s put in the hatch out tank the day of the hatch with all ancillary equipment (heater and airstone) and then bleached for a minimum of an hour, neutralized and then we make any necessary adjustments to the pH and temperature

Bleached?

I've been using parent's tank water immediatly before transfering the eggs, but not doing anything to it.

RKelman/DMan, I've been using the parent's tank water for my daily changes to the hatch/larvae tank so that parameters stay as consistant as possible... I seem to have the greatest success with that... do you think I could do a change with fresh SW instead? Just a thought...

Thanks for the feedback,

Joe

[ksalt]

Your doing a great job! Don't get discouraged, you are already very successful on so many levels. If I haven't said it enough (lol) thanks for continuing to share this experience with us. BIG :woohoo::pompom::woohoo:to Dman and Vaporize for filling in the the holes for you (and all of us). Thanks guys!

[RKelman]

Thanks for the support guys. I haven't been bleaching anything. Can I get your process on that Dman? Ammonia neutralization? I was just doing water changes. Should I be using amquel or something too? The more I think of it the more I lean towards Rotifer density. I have been using fresh SW for my water changes. Opinions? Thanks again guys we are going to regroup and try again in 2 weeks. Hopefully my dang clown lays on the tile this time lol.

[RKelman]

You can see them getting darker already. Here's a few more pics of the first spawn. They are getting darker all the time. They are now eating flake food as well.


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1488.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/IMG_1487.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1483.jpg

[tankies]

congrats!!! continue the good work and the pics!!!

[RKelman]

Well here we go again. This is what I came home to yesterday. They are a day early. My wife and kids got to see them clean the site and lay the eggs / fertilize. I guess it was pretty cool. Right beside the tile...

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/IMG_1493.jpg

[JoeWalsh]

LOL

I guess I'm lucky that mine took to the tile right away. actually, what I did was plaster the rock in tiles so they really had no choice. Then after a few rounds on the tile I could take the others off and just rotate the one in the spot they like.

Joe

[RKelman]

The next time I'm going to tuck it under the Anemone. Hopefully that will work.

[RKelman]

I split my Phyto and my Rotifers today. I took 1 and 2/3 bottles and split them into 5 bottles that I had filled 2/3rds of the way with fresh sw. I now have 2 and 1/3 bottles for this week and 5 more on the way for next week. My Rotifers I went back to 2 pails. I've been feeding the heck out of them all week and they were getting pretty dense. There will be no food shortage this time! (if that's what happened) I added another pic of the fry just because I like pics :) The official count is 29. They are eating like champs. I picked up some Cyclopeeze and they love it. I haven't got my sponge filter in yet. I need to get that in now that I'm feeding the flakes / Cyclopeeze especially. I have a batch of BBS that are still in the hatcher after 4 days. I've been feeding them Phyto and I thinned them out by feeding them to the fry. Its more of an experiment than anything else. I really know next to nothing about raising Brine Shrimp to adulthood. I filled the rest of my Fluval 304 chambers with BioBalls in anticipation for moving the fry to the growout tank in a couple weeks. The growout tank has been running for a couple weeks now and is stable.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1497.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1498.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1501.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1503.jpg

[RKelman]

Well they hatched last night! I count 203 this time. They hatched 30 mins after lights out this time. I'm very encouraged by this hatch. I hope they do well. Most of them just went to the bottom of the bucket and didn't move. They did the same when I put them in the larval tank. I wonder am I moving them too soon? Should I keep them in the bucket for a while or leave them in the main tank longer before removing them? I included a pic of them in the larval tank this morning. Many seem to be sitting on the bottom still. I think they are alive still. I couldn't get a real good picture without a flash. The first batch is growing steadily. I bought 2 sponge filters and put one in with the first batch and put the other sponge in my main tanks sump to seed for this batch. I have 2 bottles of Rotifers that don't look good. They were on the outsides I moved them. I'm hoping its just because they weren't getting enough light. I think 4 bottles must be the limit for my setup. Maybe I'll get another one. I seem to have alot less misbars on the first batch all of a sudden. I noticed it last night when I got home from work. Its strange it seems some have filled in bars in a very short period of time. Is this normal?

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1534.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1532.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/IMG_1537.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/IMG_1535.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/IMG_1541.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/IMG_1543.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/IMG_1544.jpg

[JoeWalsh]

We seem to be in synch :D

I hope you have the success you want with this batch.

Joe

[RKelman]

Cool :) I lost 110 fry last night. I must be doing something majorly wrong in the collection process. Perhaps the temperature in the bucket is dropping too much while I'm transfering. I think next time I will 1/2 fill the bucket and drop a 50w heater in it to keep the temperature up. I'm just using a plastic container to scoop them off the surface. I push it into the water and they flow in. Then I place it in the water so they flow out.

[JoeWalsh]

well with using the tile transfer method... I only lost maybe a dozen last night... also had 200-300 hatch but can't get a count like you do from the hatch tank. Impossible to count them there.

That probably has a lot to do with being acclamated to the water from the start...

[RKelman]

I hope the little buggers lay on the tile this time.

[RKelman]

Well of the new batch I'd say I have 70-75 left. I had one day I lost 14 then another 6 I think. I siphoned out 1 or 2 today as well. Its hard to tell really how many there are for sure. I did a 30% water change yesterday with water from the parent tank. I did another today. I'm keeping the water tinted green and have been adding Rots twice a day. They all appear to be in good health now and have full silver bellies. I hope my other 2 bottles of phyto finish greening up soon. I'm getting low. I have Rotifers coming out my ears though :) I fed some partially grown Brine Shrimp to the first hatch yesterday. It was really funny to watch. They kind of shy'ed away at first but then they would eat a few of the smaller ones. The big ones seemed to be able to swim through the school with impunity. They all just gave them space. One time when they were through a brave soul followed them and nipped at one. In reaction the Shrimp turned and came at its pursuer and the little Clown turned around and bolted back to his siblings evading the monster shrimp. :) Today I fed them some more and it was a free for all. Big and small the Brine Shrimp were dinner. It was funny watching a 3/8 in long clown with a Brine Shrimp hanging out of its mouth being chased by 10 others. I took my tile and drilled a hole in it so I could attach a piece of fishing line. I hung it over where they have been spawning. They were not impressed. Hopefully they lay on the tile this time. I'll get some more pics up soon.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1551.jpg

[NiKoLa]

That sounds awsome! Hope they survive. I would like a pair if they do ;)

[ksalt]

Glad to hear of your continued success! :woohoo:
Do you feed the rotifers (in a bowl of phyto) before they are feed to the tank?

[vaporize]

Glad to hear of your continued success! :woohoo:
Do you feed the rotifers (in a bowl of phyto) before they are feed to the tank?

I think he is doing co-culturing (i.e. put phyto directly in with the rotifers), usually enrichment is not required unless there are way too many fries (i.e. very high demand for rotifiers).

[RKelman]

Yes I'm Co-Culturing. I'm also putting Phyto in with the Rotifers in the buckets.

[RKelman]

They laid eggs on the tile! After only 11 days. I don't know if it makes a difference but I've been feeding them a couple times a day now. Finally.. I counted about 375 eggs this time. I took a couple pics of the younger fry this morning too. They aren't too fat in the morning. I probably should have taken more with their silver bellies tonight. Now I have to drill another hole in a tile. Ugh. Unless someone has a better idea...

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1557.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1560.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1554.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1556.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1555.jpg

[JoeWalsh]

Hey! They hit the tile :D

Mine have been sulking since I took the eggs out last time... It's been 14 days now since they laid the last batch and they don't look like they're ready again yet...

[frankthetank]

Great post, I will following it till the day you have so many fish you wont know what to do with them all.

[RKelman]

Bummer Joe. I was afraid by putting the tile there mine would stop spawning. That may not be long frankthetank lol :)

[ksalt]

Thats awesome RKelman. they must be so comfortable in your DT; I was kind of surprised (not surprizing :) ) they laid last time after you had added the tile. This keeps getting better. Good for you!

In co-culturing; (Silly ?) Are you actually culturing phyto at the same time (in the same bucket) or adding it as the food source for the rotifer while they culture?

[RKelman]

Sorry for not getting back to you ksalt. I didn't get a notification of a reply.. Weird. Anyhow, By co culturing I'm adding rotifers to the larvae tank and adding phyto to feed the rotifers so they multiply while they are in the larvae tank as well. Also the phyto will grow in there to some extent as well. It helps to maximize resources. As well the green tint to the water seems to be of benefit to the light sensitive larvae.
I hope I explained that ok... :)


Ok I haven't updated in a while so here it is. Not very exciting really.


Here's the "old" guys in the growout tank. It looks really funny to have 29 tiny fish with all the empty space but oh well. I'm going to use a divider and put the second batch in there too.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1626.jpg


Here's the latest clutch of eggs. They will hatch Wed night hopefully. I'm going to move them over to the larval tank wed.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1649.jpg


The new guys weren't very cooperative. They were swimming way to fast to get a good picture. They are 10 days old and eating BBS like champs. I decapsulated my first brine eggs tonight. We'll see how that works. I hate shells. I had one die today for some reason... He was spinning around like crazy when I checked on them after work. This is my first meta / post meta loss.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1652.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1651.jpg


This guy "owns" the heater. Its funny he'll defend it too.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1657.jpg


Here's my larvae tanks as they are setup now. This was taken before I moved the older ones to growout. The sponge filters seem to be cycled now and water changes aren't required as often / extensively.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1614.jpg


That's all I have for now. I'll update again with new developments.

[Old Yeller Tang]

Way too wicked. Please keep updating the thread, as it's absolutely fascinating.

[nopro]

WOW great job!!! You are doing awesome. Keep up the good work!!:thumbsup:

[E_V_B_1]

I have been following the thread and it looks like your doing a great job. Keep up the good work and congrats on everything.

[Dman]

That "spinning" before they die is usually due to ammonia. A dash of neutralizer should rectify that.

[RKelman]

Thanks guys I'll keep going :) Dman, My ammonia is good. I checked as soon as I saw it. I don't use any neutralizers. Which would you reccomend. I figured natural is best / water changes. How do people use it for larvae and rotifers? It would be nice to use with the rots for sure.

[Bluesox_68]

WOW awesome thread great job and pics! the one on the heater is too funny

[chrandi]

How long until you can put 1 or more in your display tank?

[RKelman]

Thanks Bluesox. About 4 months or so Chandri. I won't be keeping any for my display as I already have 2.

[Dman]

There's a small hitch with solving minor ammonia issues with water changes. That being if the new water has a higher pH than the water in the tank it turns fairly harmless ammonia (I think non_ionized, but don't quote me on it) deadly.
Anything with sodium thiosulphate should do the trick, I use Chloram-X.
Maintaining prper pH levels in growout is an ongoing concern for most of us who do this as the pH drops steadily from the get-go. so until they're on a central system, the pH /ammonia seesaw can be a real PITA

[RKelman]

Yes the PH thing is definately a pain. Usually if its only a small change I need to do I don't check it. If its a large one I do. I rarely have to buffer ph in any of my tanks for some reason.. I'm not sure why.

[MattB]

Awesome post! I'm really enjoying watching your progress as I want to breed Ocellaris clowns soon. Keep up the good work and the up-dates to the post!

[tibiboy1]

SO TONIGHT is THE NIGHT AGAIN ?? !! right??


WILL CROSSING FINGERS !!!!!

[RKelman]

Thanks MattB I'm glad people are enjoying it. Yes Tibiboy1 tonight is the night. My fingers are crossed too thanks :) Ok I filled a tank 1/2 full with water from the DT and took the tile out and put it in tonight. They weren't impressed with me.. I had to prop it up on a rock (scrubbed) I hope I have the bubbles right. They should hatch tonight. This time I replaced the tile with a taller one I I don't need the fishing line again. I have no idea why I didn't do it in the first place.. A little slow I guess. I had 6 of the younger ones die today. I checked the water and its ok. They had eaten all the BBS and Rots that were in the tank and the water was crystal clear. They couldn't have starved. They had lots of food this morning. Maybe my decapsulated BBS had something to do with it? I went back to normal hatching tonight.


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1659.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1660.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1661.jpg

[RKelman]

They hatched! I had 6 dead on the bottom this morning and 1 that failed to hatch. Pretty good I think. I took some pics before I wrapped the tank and added the phyto / rots. There should be about 365 I think. Hopefully this helps the mortality rate..


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1662.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1670.jpg

[ksalt]

Wow! :hurray: What a great batch.:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:
keep up the great work and the thread, thanks a million for sharing.

Mike

[RKelman]

Thanks.

[tibiboy1]

woowww congrats!
that a lot of little fish :))
how r they doing ?

[RKelman]

Well I have lost about 25 so far and I think 100 or so will die tonight. A bunch don't look good. Oh well we'll see. I really don't know what a good survival rate is even.

[E_V_B_1]

thats a large batch. Seems like your getting a good feel on everything. I hope your survival rate it high!

[MattB]

Well I have lost about 25 so far and I think 100 or so will die tonight. A bunch don't look good. Oh well we'll see. I really don't know what a good survival rate is even.

My book on breeding Clowns says that an 18% survival rate is very good. From following your posts, I'd say you're doing awesome!

[RKelman]

Which book? If 18 is good then I'm happy. It doesn't sound good to me though.

[MattB]

Which book? If 18 is good then I'm happy. It doesn't sound good to me though.

"Clownfishes: A Guide to Their Captive Care, Breeding & Natural History" by Joyce D. Wilkerson. It's supposed to be one of the best books on the subject.

[John11]

how old are the very first batch of guys now?

[RKelman]

Lol I have that book. I guess I better read it again. The "old guys" are about 6 weeks now.

[tibiboy1]

hi
any update? how is the little ones ???

[RKelman]

I had a large dieoff in the 2 week olds. We dropped the water level below the output from the sponge filter and the oxygen level dropped killing about 40 fish. I only have 5 left of them. I have about 200 or so I think from the latest batch at 5 days old. My Rots are real low now so I'm starting to feed BBS tomorrow. I usually wait another couple days but I have no choice. I actually fed them some crushed flakes today and they ate. (As well as Rots) I'm doing 30-40% water changes daily now on the youngest larvae's tank. I took a pop bottle and cut the top off and attached a coffee filter to one end and air line to the other so I could siphon water out without wasting rots. I do a quick vac on the bottom of the tank before I switch to this. I'm dripping the water back into the tank slowly because I'm dropping the salinity to 1.020 to match my cultures so I only have to mix one big container of water instead of many different salinitys in smaller containers. I think we'll see them lay eggs again tomorrow or Wed.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1672.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1678.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1673.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1674.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1680.jpg

[tibiboy1]

RKelman u have a lot of work there,but u r enjoying for sure:)
any pics of the 7 weeks old guys???
will be a bussiness for u !!!?????
if u start selling them I'M IN FOR A PAIR !

[ksalt]

I like the the coffee filter/rots life proserver, thanks for the tip. Sorry about the loss your taking it well and the only way you can. Back to your notes and progess on. Keep us post on the next lay, good luck.

[RKelman]

I still have 29 of the origional batch. The bigger ones are probably 3/4" or so. They won't hold still while I hold the measuring tape. :lol: I will contact anyone who mentioned wanting some when they are of age. KSalt: It just seemed really wastefull to change the water and waste Rots. Especially when I'm struggling to have enough to feed my fish. We were really upset with ourselves when we saw what we had done. It really is heartbreaking to loose that many fish for a easily avoidable mistake we made. (not to mention alot of wasted work) But we have learned from it and we are moving forward. Here's some pics. The youngest batch is doing well and I just fed them BBS for the first time. They are really fat right now. Its a good thing they are eating because I am almost out of Rots. They have a headband stripe tonight woohoo! The 5 left of 2 week olds are looking good now they are swimming around the tank. They used to just huddle in a corner since they lost their siblings.
The parents havent laid another nest yet. I really expected it to be today. Maybe tomorrow. She's getting pretty fat. I'm glad people are still interested in the thread. It makes it worth while. Hopefully if someone decides they want to raise clowns they will come across it and gain some usefull information.


I couldn't get them all in the picture.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1685.jpg


Feeding time.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1687.jpg


Feeding time. Its always feeding time.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1689.jpg


You can see the headband stripes

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1692.jpg


Tail curled ready to strike.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1693.jpg


Fat belly

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1695.jpg


They go from having silver bellies when they are full on Rots to Orange / Pink bellies on the BBS.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1697.jpg

[tibiboy1]

They so so cute !!!
let us know what happened tonight please!!!!

i'm so intrested of learning the process so good to folow the thread!!!!
THX FOR ALL THE PICTURES!!!

[RKelman]

Tonight? There is nothing happening tonight I don't think..

[tibiboy1]

so when u are expecting the new nest ?... tomorrow?

[John11]

ill take a pair! always wanted black clown fish....happy to hear of your continued success:)

[RKelman]

I really expected it today. They seem to lay about 4-5 pm usually. Hopefully tomorrow. Thanks John I'll let you know :)

[Dman]

We were really upset with ourselves when we saw what we had done. It really is heartbreaking to loose that many fish for a easily avoidable mistake we made. (not to mention alot of wasted work)



Welcome to my world.
Keep up the good work, it's SUPPOSED to get easier.

[RKelman]

Its definately getting easier to handle all the different things that need to be done. Thanks Dman. :)

[RKelman]

Here's tongihts nest! About 400 or so. They laid it just after 5:00pm. Its strange to me they do it the same time each spawn..


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1699.jpg

[Dr. Zoos]

that/this is just awesome!!!!!!!!:cheers:

[ksalt]

:iagree:
that/this is just awesome!!!!!!!!:cheers:
congrat!

[Dman]

They'll do that, spawn at almost exactly the same time every cycle so long as their parameters stay constant

[RKelman]

Lets hope Dman :) Mine were a day late this time. They made me a bit nervous I must admit.

[Dr. Zoos]

Lets hope Dman :) Mine were a day late this time. They made me a bit nervous I must admit.
I know what you feel, I get the same thing with my wife;):laugh::D j/k
Shane

[jroovers]

This is an amazing post... awesome reading and pictures!

[tibiboy1]

HI RKlman
so how is the little ones doing??

what do u think,when we can have a pair from the first gang ?

[RKelman]

They are doing great. The smallest ones are eating BBS like crazy. They'll be a couple months before they can go anywhere I think. :)

[Waldo88]

Great job RKlman 400 in that last batch thats assume. Following your thread sure shows what has to be done to make this work. Everyday seems to be a huge challenge and learning curve.

:thanxU: :cheers:

[Dman]

Don't keep them on BBS for very long, 3-4 weeks at the most. Get them on some sort of dry/flake food as quickly as you can.

[RKelman]

Thanks Waldo88. Yes every day seems to be a challenge. Its getting easier though. Dman: I'm already starting them on flake slowly. I'm supplimenting with it between hatches of BBS. I'll have them switched over quick don't worry. BBS are a pain. Thanks :)

[Dman]

BBS are more than just a pain, they are a known trigger of sudden fright syndrome.

[vaporize]

Dman, can you go into a bit more of the "sudden freight" symptom? I feed mine BBS & also freeze dried plankton (forgot the name, those used to feed reef, similiar to Polyplab reefresh)

[RKelman]

Sudden fright syndrome? Never heard of it.. Lets hear it :)

[RKelman]

Ok Its been a busy couple of days... Last night I broke down the tank from the 5 survivors and cleaned it up and 1/2 filled it with water from the main tank. I split my phyto tonight. Crushed the heck out of some more flakes / cyclopleeze for the fry. Last weekend I siphoned the bottom of my Rotifer pails and used that to start another culture. I'm sick of worrying about running out. I now have 3 pails going. Decapsulated some brine shrimp eggs and transfered my tile to the larvae tank and replaced it with another for the clowns. They weren't nearly as miffed at me this time.

Here's a picture of the phyto after the split if anyone is interested. I'm splitting 2 bottles Wed nights and 3 on Sundays to keep a steady supply instead of filling my fridge with phyto every sunday.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1742.jpg

Here's my new Rotifer culture. Looks like pretty good density already.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1752.jpg

Here's the tile in the nice clean larvae tank.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1750.jpg

Here's another shot of the egg tile..

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1749.jpg

Here's the replacement. The clowns seemed much more content after I put it in.
They must think of it as their nest now.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1741.jpg

My 14 day olds larvae tank is culturing phyto apparently. I change the water and it turns green again...

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1747.jpg

I'll post some pics tomorrow night of the new hatch so long as everything goes well.

[Fishtastic]

Very inspiring thread, thanks so much for all the updates. Keep 'em coming!

[RKelman]

Thanks will do! :)

[JoeWalsh]

Are you talking about "Sudden Fright Syndrome" ? Definately a concern with young bangaii. Slam a door, turn lights on abruptly, anything that creates a "sudden shock" can do it. They literally drop out of the water colum and collapse on the tank floor, for all appearences dead. And they will die too if you don't act and act fast. It's easy, all you have to do is swirl some water around them, a lot like revitalizing a gamefish after a catch on hook & line. Get water moving over the gills and they will recover just fine. It's very common in bangaii and accounts for a lot of deaths if you ignore it.


Found that from a google search at Marine Ornamental Fish & Invert Breeders site... and it sure explains a lot of deaths I've had.

[RKelman]

Here's some pics of the last hatch. There should have been about 400. I can't get a full tank shot and have it detailed enough to count them. I don't think there is that many. I've lost about 30 so far. (I haven't checked on them yet this morning)


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1754.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1755.jpg

[RKelman]

They have laid again. This one is bigger than the last I think. I didn't count them. I couldnt get the camera to focus clear enough. The last batch is doing well. As I said before there is way less than the number of eggs I had. Who knows what happened to them. I am really having a hard time with ammonia with this batch. I can't seem to get it down. I've done huge water changes and I'm using Amquel. I put a sponge filter in today. Hopefully that helps. I think there is about 200 left. They seem to be strong and active. I still can't control the phyto in my 17 day olds tank.. Its really weird. I haven't had this problem before. Last night I put a ton of Rots in the water to try and clear it up. This morning all the Rots are gone and the water is green lol. Oh well there are worse problems to have I suppose. My wife wants me to build a bigger rack system so I can house the phyto and rots in the same place as well. So I'll integrate them into it. It will be nice to have everything together. Really I would love another way to hatch BBS. I sink the hatchery in a fry tank so the temperature is high enough to hatch the shrimp. (80deg) I don't know what others are doing so some input would be appreciated.


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1767.jpg

[Atomikk]

Keep it coming. Illustrations are always the way to go to explain what you are doing.

Good work!

[E_V_B_1]

looks like your really do good. Love the postss keepo them coming and good luck

[RKelman]

Bad news... They are eating the eggs.. I think its because I used my tongs to push the anemone back so I could get a clear picture to count. I think I stressed them causing them to eat the nest. Maybe the experts will chime in on this. This morning there was 1/4 of the eggs left. I likely won't bother with this batch if there is any left to hatch. If the numbers are too low its just not worth the work. Thanks Atomikk and EVB1 :)

[RKelman]

Bad news... They are eating the eggs.. I think its because I used my tongs to push the anemone back so I could get a clear picture to count. I think I stressed them causing them to eat the nest. Maybe the experts will chime in on this. This morning there was 1/4 of the eggs left. I likely won't bother with this batch if there is any left to hatch. If the numbers are too low its just not worth the work. Thanks Atomikk and EVB1 :)

[ksalt]

Your doing such a great job with these little guys and with all of us,lol. I don't think it will hurt one bit skipping a hatch or even two (if you think necessary); this time will help with preparing your phyto and rots system and hone your skills. :woohoo:Thanks again.

Mike

[RKelman]

Thanks Mike. I can't see how many are left tonight as the anemone is covering them. A rest will be nice though :)

[Dman]

I seriously doubt moving the anemone with tongs would cause them to eat the eggs, look for another cause. Blacks are often notoriously fickle. Did the female charge the tongs? If she didn't there could be something else at play here. Usually they eat the eggs under two conditions, the eggs weren't properly fertilized or the parents were hungry
HTH

[RKelman]

They both were charging the tongs lol. As they do with anything that comes near. I'm / we are feeding them 3 times a day while they may be hungry they aren't underfed.. There is some eggs left they didn't eat them all. Hopefully this is a one time thing.

[RKelman]

I don't have much to update really. They ate most of the last nest. There is probably 100 eggs left. I doubt I'll bother rearing them. We'll see, I'm a sucker. I bought the wood to build a 8x2ft rack system to house 10 tanks and my phyto / rots. It will be sooo nice having everything in 1 place. I also bought myself a Canon Rebel XTI digital SLR so I'm posting a bunch of pics :)

Here's the youngest ones they are now 9 days old. There is 2 that haven't finished Meta yet. 1 looks like a Larvae still. Its funny because most are getting 2 stripes now. They are on BBS / Rots since yesterday with no deaths from the BBS. I've fed a bit more sparingly this time perhaps that's the ticket. I think there are about 150 / 200 left.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0137.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0122.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0065.jpg

Here's the middle ones. They are 25 days

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0055.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0125.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0063.jpg

Here's the older ones they are 64 days old.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0016.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0018.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0019.jpg

Since it Mothers Day here's some pics of the parents.
Dad is a bit camera shy.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0087.jpg

Mom

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0099.jpg

[ksalt]

Very nice camera! and very nice pictures Rkelman:hurray:. I'm jealous! It is my next big purchase when ever Kim comes how from her own shopping trip, which is never to far away.lol Thats how this whole hobby thing got started, god bless her.lol

Your fish are looking great, keep up the good work and keep the pics a coming!!!!

[FB_]

Any idea what is causing a couple of them to be mis-bared. I have not had any with my pair yet. I have heard conflicting reason as to what causes it.

Great job keep up the good work.

Here is a link to my breeding thread on ReefCentral.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1289236

Maybe we could learn something from each other.

FB

[RKelman]

I'm not sure FB. I thought most breeders had misbars. I have been told its water quality / diet. I'm feeding Rots / Greenwater the same as you and I keep up with my water changes ect. I'm feeding the parents 3 times a day. I've been following your thread here and there on RC. You have Ocellaris right? Mine finished off the rest of the nest today. I hope they don't make this a habit...

[RKelman]

I finally got around to building my rack for my Clowns. I just finished the electrical today. Its 8ft long x 2 ft wide x 36" tall to the top shelf. I'm going to keep all the tanks up top and my Phyto / Rots ect down below. I have 7 outlets up top for the tanks (i'm going to have 8 up there) and 2 on the lower shelf. All protected by a GFI of course on a dedicated circuit. I installed 2 4ft light fixtures up top for the Clowns and one below on its side for the Phyto which is replacing a single bulb 2 ft lamp. I shouldn't have to rotate my bottles to get even cultures anymore. It also give me room to grow 10 bottles of phyto if I want to. Its going to be nice having everything in one place finally. Here's some pics.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0291.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0293.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0292.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0295.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0297.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0296.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0299.jpg

[FB_]

Awesome job.

Any idea on the total cost I'm looking to do something similiar. I am now on my last inch of space.

[RKelman]

Um off the top of my head maybe $300 including the lights. I didn't buy everything at once I already had the lights. So Its hard to say exactly. My wife would say that's my angle. ;)

[Atomikk]

Nice work! Hard work pays off... as long as the wife doesn't know how much it costs.

[John11]

any updates on the little guys plus the nest? are they still getting eaten by the parents? let us know when your planning on selling some of the clowns i would love a pair:D

[RKelman]

They ate the last batch. I'm hoping they don't eat this one. They should lay again Next week. I changed up their diet to my home made food. Hopefully it helps. If not I'm going to try and incubate the eggs myself. I bought another pair of clowns :)

[ksalt]

Congrats on the *New pair! B&W ? Pics.?

Any special recipe you are using for the home made food? Fish only food or do your corals and anemone eat it as well?

[RKelman]

They aren't b&w this time. Here's some pics. I picked up a bag of "Seafood Medley" at Costco it has Octopus, squid, clams ect ect. I added some flakes / cyclopleeze and put it in the blender and froze it in Ziplocks. The fish love it. I still feed the nem separately. I don't feed the corals really. When I don't have any real young ones I'm feeding some rots / phyto but that's it.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0501.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0489.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0483.jpg

[RKelman]

Ok after switching tanks / and a break my pair are biting back the Anemone and cleaning the rock. She seems a little chubby too. Here's my problem. Do I put the tile back in or leave them alone so as not to spook them into stopping again?

[Dman]

I'd let them lay once or twice in the new spot before putting the tile back in, plus this will give you a chance to see if they're still eating the eggs.

[RKelman]

Thanks Dman I think I'll take your advice. My wife said the mating behavior was fast and furious around 5:00 tonight. I'll take that as a great sign because thats the time they have been laying eggs in the past. She's not real fat... Maybe a bit of a gut maybe wishfull thinking. We'll see.

[vaporize]

Thanks Dman I think I'll take your advice. My wife said the mating behavior was fast and furious around 5:00 tonight. I'll take that as a great sign because thats the time they have been laying eggs in the past. She's not real fat... Maybe a bit of a gut maybe wishfull thinking. We'll see.

Keep feeding them good nutritious food and "good luck" :)

[george007]

What is good food to feed breeding clown's:pompom: :pompom: :pompom:

[RKelman]

Well I was right. There was a nice batch of eggs to greet me when I got home tonight. I hope they don't eat them. Here's some pics. I can't wait to get back at it.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0908.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0909.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0911.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0912.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_0914.jpg

[Dman]

Very nice nest, great colour. You're obviously doing something right.

[RKelman]

Thanks. They look like they made it through the night without being eaten. I have my fingers crossed.

[RKelman]

I had a complete hatch last night of about 200 fry I think. I don't really know I started counting then just said screw it. It was late and I was tired. Keeping count is depressing anyhow. You start with 400 and end up with 150. At least this way I can say I started with some and I still have some. It makes sense in my mind. :)

I fed them Rotifers this morning then added phyto to tint the water. I didn't see any dead yet so that's a good start.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1074.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1077.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1078.jpg


All the other guys are doing well still and eating Otohime like crazy. They love the stuff. The feeding reaction is much greater than with other food I've tried.

I don't think I ever noted that the second and third batch that are in the pictures below don't have nearly as many misbars as the first. Seeing as I did the exact same process for all of the hatches I would say it was initial egg quality as the reason for the 50% misbars of the first hatch.

I had 7 from the first hatch left (some of which are spoken for just not delivered yet) so I put them in with the oldest of the next hatches in the 15g to free up a 10g for this hatch. There was alot more bickering going on as the numbers got fewer.

Also I got a new display (190) and with the sump setup I have right now there is no fuge so I put a little of my dying chaeto in with the fry and you can see its quite green now and growing like crazy. I had too much flow in my fuge I think causing the die off. I do weekly water changes anyways but it can't hurt the water quality.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1079.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1080.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1081.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1082.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1083-2.jpg

[ksalt]

:woohoo:FANTASTIC!!!!:hurray::hurray::hurray::hurr ay::hurray:
So good to hear they are back on track. You know the drill by now, the full bars will increase as will the spawn. Every time I see all those babies all I can do is small. Your doing a great job.

[Drunknmunky7]

Wow, this was an amazing thread to follow..I am lookin at a pair of B&W to maybe purchase..now I know where to go to get some great info......Awesome job my friend!!!!!!...

[RKelman]

Thanks Drunkmunky7 I'm glad you have enjoyed the thread. I am as well.

[demaria36]

I'll have to agree, this is an awesome thread! Rob, you're doing a great job, keep up the good work. I can't wait to get my pair!!:bravo:

[RKelman]

Thanks guys I appreciate the encouragement. I lost another 20 last night :( I think I'm down to about 60. This is going to be a very small batch. It seems that when we catch manually / transfer to the larvae tank our success rate is much lower. I can only assume its from physical damage. We are carefull but who knows.. Another problem I feel we have with Black Ocellaris is the food.. I think the rotifers are too big. They don't start dying until Rotifers are fed. I get 0 loss the first night. I feed in the morning and I get some deaths. I may try and find a smaller strain. I think the ones I have are S but I don't know for sure.

[RKelman]

More losses last night. Probably 15. I noticed I seem to have a physical trap problem in my tank. I had about 15 or so of them under my airstone dead and a few stuck behind the thermometer. This could explain a good portion of my losses. I took the thermometer out and raised the airstone off the bottom. I still haven't changed the water. I'm using Amquel this time. Its a small batch so I'm doing some experimenting.

[Dman]

Experimenting is the way to go with smaller batches (hurts less)
Physical traps are a total PITA, took us months to figure them all out, trick is to not have any intersections (where something touches something else). Floating airlines were one of our worst culprits.
If your co-culturing rots and phyto in the larval tanks conventional wisdom is that there's no need for a smaller strain as there will always be baby rots (ie smaller) being born. It's odd that your fry are having a hard time with rot size, most of our larvae were considerably bigger out of the gate than any of our other species.
As for the misbarring, anyone who's been doing this for awhile knows it's an ongoing debate, we were running anywhere from 10% in one batch to over 50% in another. A colleague in Brazil gets 0% misbars and swears by his "dirty water" technique. I think there's a decent thread on MOFIB regarding it, the debate continues.

[RKelman]

I don't know for sure rot size is a problem.. It may be coincidence they start dying only the next day. I am co culturing but with a larger batch they don't reproduce fast enough to keep up with the demand of 200 - 300 fry. The physical traps have been haunting me for a while. I keep having jumpers in the older fry tanks. I have glass lids but they don't fit well. I'm going to have to make some new ones I guess that fit properly.

[araziza]

I'm now happy to say I am the proud owner of a pair of Rob's clowns. They seem content in their new home, and eat like pigs! Thanks Rob!

[demaria36]

Count me in as a proud owner as well! What are you feeding them if you don't mind me asking? They were picking at some of the pellets I put in and man are they ever active little buggers! And fearless might I add! Thanks Rob.

[John11]

Proud owner as well..at first they were getting chased now they stand their ground and chase back and eat like pigs too. I have them feeding on flake and mysis and they love it.

[RKelman]

I'm glad to hear they are all doing well. They should eat just about anything Greg as long as its small enough for them.

[araziza]

I've tried feeding mine flake and frozen brine so far, and they have picked at the flake and took the brine eagerly. They're a really boistrous pair.

[Pete35]

hey! I just read through this entire thread, its so interesting!
what would be the best way to get a pair? I already have one clown, and have had it for a few months, so does that mean it would be a female by now? so would the best thing to do be to just buy another smaller clown?
thanks!

[RKelman]

Yours will still be a juvi . Yes I would buy a smaller one.

[RKelman]

Well I have about 40 left in various stages of Meta. I was forced to do a water change as the amquel just wasn't getting the ammonia down enough. I also decided to put my sponge filter in (earlier than ever) We'll see if that was a good idea or not.. I started some BBS in my hatchery last night. I'll feed them tonight. I'm going to give them a little BBS before I switch to Otohime. Here's some pics I took tonight showing various stages of metamorphosis. These pics were taken tonight at 7 days.

Pre Meta (notice they are skinny and look like mosquito larvae)

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-premeta.jpg

Mid Meta (Noticeably chunkier / Slight headband / Kinked tail)

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-midmeta.jpg

Post Meta (Pretty much a full headband / slight middle stripe /slow waggy tail

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-postmeta.jpg

[RKelman]

Here's some updated pics. There isn't much going on really. The older guys are well.. Older and the little ones are growing steadily. I only hatched one batch of BBS for them. Since I've been feeding Otohime.
The parents haven't laid another nest yet.. Stupid fish.

This is the older guys. They stick their heads right out of the water at feeding time. Little pigs.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1140.jpg

This guy is the boss. That is "His" sponge filter and anyone who tries to come near it is promptly chased off.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1161.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1165.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1166.jpg

Hmm. Must be a misbar. He looks like a Clarki.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1168.jpg

[Pete35]

so do they become fully black later on? or do their heads stay orange?

[76tmlfan]

They go fully black as they mature.

[RKelman]

Yes they get blacker as they get older. Some retain a orange face. My female is completely black and the male has an orange face. Like 76tmlfan's avatar.

[RKelman]

WOHOOO! :hurray: The little buggers laid again. On the tile this time too.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1197.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1199.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1200.jpg

[ksalt]

Congrats Rkelman:hurray: I'm not have so much luck :( It will come... My B&Ws are doing great, loving their host. Keep us posted.

Edit; Any luck with the new set of Oscellaris?

[RKelman]

Thanks Mike. Yes yours will get there. My new ones almost killed each other. I've had to separate them. I'm going to give it a few months then try again.

[meterman]

Do you plan on selling these little guys anytime soon? I have one already, I'd love to get him a girlfriend. :)

[RKelman]

PM Sent :)

[FishinaBowl]

This has just been a great Thread ! Best of Luck !:bravo:

[RKelman]

Thanks fishinabowl.

Well its hatch night. I moved the eggs to the larvae tank. I They had the eggs so high on the tile I had to turn it upside down in the tank. I counted the eggs (i got bored) There was about 450 I could see and some behind one of them I figure about 500 ish. I set my bubble wand thingy so it circulates the water across the eggs but doesn't hit them with the bubbles. My rotifers and phyto are in good shape so I have high hopes for this batch. I'll update tomorrow. I have my fingers crossed for a good hatch.


Mmmm Skittles.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_11992.jpg

Silver eyes

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1209.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1210.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1212.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1213.jpg

[ksalt]

Fingers crossed for you, but your starting to make it look easy, lol. Helps the new guy like myself slow down and have the patience need. Thanks Rob! Nice clutch this time around, they are really helping you out. Best of luck tonight:D

Mike

[Dman]

If you have any, dose the hatch tank before lights out with Methylene Blue at 2-4 drops per gallon, it'll ward off any fungus caused by aeration that might form on the eggs.
Good luck.
Derek

[RKelman]

I've never heard of that Dman. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll pick some up.. I assume I can get it at the LFS usually? Does it have a brand name or just Methylene Blue?

[RKelman]

They hatched last night. Well most did. I had about 100 that didn't I assume they will tonight. I haven't had a partial hatch yet so I'm a bit nervous the others may not be well. I haven't had a clutch this big either though. I lost probably 100 or 150 so far. I wish the survival rates with B&W's was better. Oh well I'll just do my thing and whatever I get I'll be happy with.

[RKelman]

Well the rest didn't hatch after 2 days. The eggs still had black eyes but they were all slimy and stuck together. Not hanging loosely like normal. I guess they are kinda white. With a green tint from the phyto. It turns out this is going to be another low count to grow out. Bad eggs this time I think.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1214.jpg

[Dman]

you pretty much cannot start a co-culture when there is still eggs to hatch, messes them up.

[RKelman]

Good to know thanks :)

[Dman]

Properly nourished larvae should be able to live for up to three days with out food, surviving on their yolk sacs. Plus the earlier notion that the larvae need to "learn" to hunt prey food items has been pretty much debunked. I have witnessed rotifers strikes on the night of the hatch in minimal light, but it's really not necessary and in my experience hasn't improved survival rates. Algae by its very nature is not good for the eggs and any type of aeration or egg motion inducing schemes will ever (at this time) replace the mouth cleaning efficiency of the parents.

[RKelman]

Ok next time I get a partial hatch I'll just leave it be until the rest hatch. Do you mean aerating the eggs is a bad idea? Or they are just better off with the parents? My "parents" are in the display which makes it a little difficult to retrieve the larvae. I haven't tried the whole snagger thing yet.. I figured taking the eggs on a tile was best...

[Dman]

All I was getting at was that no matter what you use to jostle the eggs; whether it's aeration, water stream or tumbler nothing comes close to the care the parents give them. Therefore the addition of any algae species should be avoided until after the hatch is complete. Rotifers can be added right away, but I've not noticed an increase in survivability either way. Plus you can never be entirely sure of exactly what the rotifers bring to the table bacterial-wise. The Meth blue will help with that but almost nothing is "sure fire".

[RKelman]

I agree I can't aerate them like the parents do for sure. This was my first incomplete hatch. All others have been probably 98% hatch rate.

[asuranzara]

RKelman, please pm me your email address. I cant pm you as my post count isnt enough thanks

[RKelman]

Well I got bored so I figured I'd take some pictures. My last batch has probably 50 or so left. I'll be putting them all together in the same tank as the previous hatch at some point I think. I'm beginning to see a head band on some so we are pretty much out of the woods. I don't get many meta deaths so I feel good about where they are at now. No water changes at all in this last batch yet. I'm using Amquel every day. I've been co-culturing and haven't had to add Rots since day 1 as they are multiplying as fast as they are being eaten at this point.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1304.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1305.jpg

The batch of about 45 from a month ago is doing well and growing like crazy.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1233.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1298.jpg

This tank has probably 175 or so that are ranging from 1/2" to 3/4" in size. They are a mixture of different hatches. I'm sorting by size not age. It really doesn't matter how old they are if they are too small they are too small...

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1267.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1302.jpg

These guys are pretty much ready to go they range from 1" to 1 1/4" I dunno how many maybe 75?

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1294.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1254.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1310-1.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1315.jpg


Here's Mom

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1276.jpg

Here's Dad

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1275.jpg

[meterman]

Great pics! Can't wait to bring one home!

[RKelman]

I had a good hatch thurs night. Probably 400 or so. One of my Rotifer cultures crashed and the other 2 are very weak. I did a huge water change on them last week. So yesterday i cleaned out the buckets and did another water change with fresh SW this time trying to salvage anything I could. These guys may go to Otohime really early this time. I have used the grunge in the bottom of the bucket before in a pinch. Hmm.. Maybe I shouldn't have cleaned the buckets so well. Hindsight is 20/20. Today I siphoned probably 150 dead ones out. I hate that. I seem to have really high losses for the first few days. I know they aren't starving they aren't old enough to starve yet... I put water in from my display tank the night before the hatch. On hatch night I saw the water was very slightly cloudy. I've been told to use some Methylene Blue by Dman to ward off fungus ect. I'm going to get some and try that. (I assume it will ward of a bacterial bloom as well Dman?) I had a major bacterial bloom in my QT tank a couple months ago and it killed a Blonde Naso and almost killed a couple reg Ocellaris I had in there. I'm thinking my summer well water isn't as good as it is in the winter. I haven't gotten my RO system going yet as I need a booster pump and I think I need a large sediment filter so I don't ruin my ro filters fast. More money.. My wife will be sooooo happy...

[76tmlfan]

Wow things are looking great for you!!! Good luck with the new Batch.

[hojimoe]

wow, just went through all 12 pages, this thread is amazing.. you've done a killer job...I can't wait to get a pair of clowns and have them mate...this is after I get my next tank going in a few months...but wow, very inspirational

[RKelman]

Thanks guys :)

[RKelman]

Here's my update.. I have probably 75-100 survivors from the last hatch that are nearing meta. I see a touch of a headband on a couple. My Rots held out. Actually this morning had to thin them out of the larvae tank so the fish had room to swim :) Man the population just exploded. It seems some stress then near perfect conditions may trigger some kind of self preservation in the Rots. I've never had to do that before. Also my cultures are coming back very well it seems. The one wasn't really doing anything. The Phyto I added 2 days ago wasn't disappearing. It actually was getting greener. (I had put a heater in this culture as well to speed reproduction) I put a gallon of water from the other cultures in it and when I thinned the rots from the larvae tank I put them in it. I came home tonight to a very dense culture. Its amazing how fast they are multiplying. My fish laid another nest tonight too. The timing is way off this time. They laid 2 days early and it was about 7:15pm. I'm running out of tanks again ugh... I can't wait for that conversation with the wife...

[brownman]

Excellent thread, thanks for the great documentation.
Here is a pic of my black o's with eggs.
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj57/changeme699/Picture004.jpg

[RKelman]

Thanks Brownman. Nice pair you have there.

[RKelman]

I went downstairs to feed this morning and this is what I found. One misbar over an inch long dead in the corner with no apparent injuries and one little 3/8" guy with a missing tail... I can't find any predators in the tank but I haven't had a death from this bunch (other than jumping out a couple times) in probably 4 months or so. I tested the water PH is 8.0 and ammonia is 0. Everyone else is ok. The big guy bit off the little guys tail and choked? I don't know.. I've never seen a clown inflict an injury like this. Nor have I seen any brutal fighting in my tanks at all. Ideas?

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1390.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/rkelman/mini-IMG_1388.jpg

[Dman]

The little guys' tail missing is more than likely from aggression. As for the death of the bigger guy, without a post mortem would be difficult to tell.

[RKelman]

It just seems like a strange coincidence to go months without a death then have 2 the same day. Very strange. I'll mail you the body for a full autopsy :)

[Dr. Zoos]

It just seems like a strange coincidence to go months without a death then have 2 the same day. Very strange. I'll mail you the body for a full autopsy :)
hmmm seems kinda fishy to me:hihi: haha

[hojimoe]

lol you guys are funny...

rkelman, did you look inside the misbared ones mouth? you never know if you would in fact see a tail

strange death,and more sad too b/c it was a misbar

[RKelman]

"hmmm seems kinda fishy to mehttp://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/images/smiles/icon_hihi%5B1%5D.gif haha"

Oh you are hilarious lol.

rkelman, did you look inside the misbared ones mouth? you never know if you would in fact see a tail

strange death,and more sad too b/c it was a misbar

No lol I didn't.

Yes it is very strange.. I like the misbars too.

[RKelman]

Well here's a bit of an update. I had my best ever hatch last night. Its about 500-600 larvae. There were 3 eggs that didn't hatch. This time I took the water out of my reef tank on the night of the hatch. I also bought a new 3" airstone and let the bubbles roll over the eggs. I was a bit concerned it was too rough on the eggs but it worked. Man they are eating me out of house and home already though. I hope my Rots hold up. I hope I get a good survival rate this time. No deaths that I can see so far today. Its hard to see when there are so many though.

I've increased feedings to 5 times a day in my growout tanks. I'd be interested to know how many times others are feeding. I'm feeding Oto B2 and C1 as well as flake food for the larger ones. I have some C2 on order.

[ksalt]

Great News RKelman:hurray:. Let me know if you need a bucket of roti. they are here eating up my phyto... My guys are just hanging around doing nothing to productive, lol. 3 unhatched eggs for 5-600 larve, WOW! keep us posted.

[Dman]

Sounds like you got the aeration down just right. You really don't have to worry about damaging the eggs with the air, you have to watch out for damaging the larvae with the current the airstone sets up.
As for feeding the juvvies, we were feeding three times a day, at least once to saturation. Same as the parents.
Good luck with that mess o' fish and keep us posted.
Dman

[hojimoe]

wow great turnover this time around rkelman, hope it turns out great, have you started to sell off any of the first batch yet? and what size are they at?

[demaria36]

I think he already sold his first batch (I am a proud owner - and they're healthy and very active at around 1.25" now). RKelman is a good guy and you can't beat his prices.

Keep up the good work!

[RKelman]

Ya the first batch is long gone. I have about 20 ready to go between 1 1/4 and 1 1/2" now. Thanks for the kind words Dan I'm sorry I didn't get to meet you:)

[sjmturtle]

Waiting for the trip to Toronto for a pair myself. Will take them anytime. Great thread!!

[Dr. Zoos]

silly question of the day......if the pair comes from the same batch can they breed?

[RKelman]

" silly question of the day......if the pair comes from the same batch can they breed?"

That's not a silly question at all. Yes they can.

[JoeWalsh]

Way to go Rob! That's how my last batch went too before I had to move the tank.

Yes you can breed from the same parents but... it's just like pure bred dogs... the more inbreeding there is the more it leads to issues. Defects, higher mortalities, temperment etc... they won't really become apparent for a few generations but they're bound to happen.

[Louise C.]

Wow, I'm waiting to hear how things turn out. I have a pair of ocellaris that have been spawning for a while and everytime it seems they have more eggs. The female in my pair is very large and typical orange colloration but the male is almost totally black. Perhaps he's an offspring of a mixed black/orange pair???
I've wondered how hard it would be to raise them. Sounds way too complicated for my setup but keep us posted. I may yet change my mind. :bounce1:
Good luck!
Louise

[RKelman]

How about some pictures Louise? A mix of a black / orange Ocellaris would likely make un attractive babies unfortunately.

[Louise C.]

Okay here are 2 pics, not so great, of the nearly black male and eggs, taken underwater with my little Pentax Optio. Because of the location, I could only get a shot by holding the camera in the tank.
Louise
30764

30765

[RKelman]

Very cool. He does look like a black ocellaris. Possibly a mix with regular ocellaris? He looks to have some orange on him other than the face? Are those eggs on silicone? Very odd.

Mine laid another nest tonight. Only days after the last one hatched. They are speeding up. My last hatch is still doing well. I have only lost about 20 that I know of. There must be 500 larvae in the tank. They have decimated my 3 rotifer cultures already. I've been feeding some Otohime A as well to suppliment the rotifers. I did a 50% water change on my cultures today when I changed the water in my growout tanks. Hopefully they take off again. I'm going to go up to 4 or 5 bottles of phyto when I split this time. More phyto = more Rots.

I also ordered a drill bit so I can drill my growout tanks as a first step in getting them all on a single system.

[Dr. Zoos]

I also ordered a drill bit so I can drill my growout tanks as a first step in getting them all on a single system.

is that a good idea? i mean what if something gets in the water of goes all wacky you would have a complete crash as opposed to a small isolated breakdown. maybe you could make 2 systems or something like that to help minimize the damage if any thing does go wrong. jmho
Shane

[RKelman]

Maybe Dr Zoos but if I don't cut down on my workload I'm going to have a bigger breakdown lol

[RKelman]

Ok.. Why was announce's post deleted?

[karcheng]

Hi Rkelman,

I am interested in a pair whenever you have it. Could you pm me please, I don't have enough post count to pm you?

Thanks,
Kar