Scotts new tank

[Mitchell]

Just posting the pic folks.

Scott will reply with the details.

[afss]

Nice pic of the tank .. thanks mitch.. I have to say i look a bit evil though.. "its mine.. ALL mine" :D :roflmao: :D

[Michael_Lambert]

so lets go scott.. let see the details!

[Mitchell]

Actually ya looked worse but I took the red eye out with photoshop.

[Michael_Lambert]

not to mention removed the horns and tail!

[afss]

Awww. I knew you cared :D

Details will follow

Now its time for sleep

[Mitchell]

Troy say's...

Why did I say I would do this?

[Mitchell]

Oh my back...Im calling in sick tomorrow

[afss]

Just a sketch of the tank with measurements. The blue is the outside.. the red is the overflow currently located in the center of the tank.

[Michael_Lambert]

So what are your current plans for it?

how may holes, how big. placed where?

[afss]

Well the measurements didn't scan so hot.. They are interior length 86" * width 27" * height 30". This works out to 301.5 gallons. The glass is all 5/8 inch.

The crack is located (on the drawing) the back left upper corner. It starts 16.5 inches from the end and goes in an arc to 9.5 inches above the bottom.

I am almost 100% sure that i know what caused the crack. It looks as if the tank either had its original bracing broken or it never had any. The new piece that goes across the tank in the middle sits below the lip of the front and back panes of glass.

If i measure the tank as it currently sits I get an outside measurement at both ends of 28 4/16" If i measure it half way to the center on each side i get 28 6/16". In the dead center i get 28 9/16". By me thats more than 14" of bow. Not much, but if i am right and its the center brace that is too large and is pushing out on the 2 panes then i think this may be the cause.

I am currently toying with 2 possible methods to fix the crack.

Method one is to take the entire pane out and replace it.

Method two (a friend told BriFli about it and he then told me) is to "patch" the crack with sheet of 1/2 inch glass that would run top to bottom of the tank and from the corner to 3 or 4 inches beyond the end of the crack.

In this case I would be removing the center overflow and patching. Placing 2 new overflows on the back. Each overflow would start 22 inches from the end. I figured an overflow box of 6"by 6". This would give me 5.5 inches overlap with the patch. Then the overflow box, then 30 inches of tank, another overflow box and then 22 more inches.

I will also be adding a 3 or 4 inch euro brace to the tank. so this would strengthen the patch even more.

I am going to price out the sheet of glass versus a patch. If the patch is considerably cheaper i think i may try that route and after its curred test it for a while with fresh water to see what it is doing. Check dimensions before and after full and every few days to see if its warping.

I know i am probably opening a can of worms and i am sure there will be loads of "your crazy" but let it rip. Anyone try something like this or know anyone who has? Any one with solid evidence that it won't work? I know i have patched a cracked bottom like this before. I have patched 2 inch hole for bulkheads before.. but never a side.

[Michael_Lambert]

same here.. never tried it with glass.. Done this with silicone and acrylic... to patch up a overflow hole i did not want to use in an old tank.. never tried it on a crack

[afss]

I have used it on holes and cracks.. just never a side crack. I can't really see why it wouldn't work.. and the way i want to do it you would never be able to tell from the front of the tank. I think if anything it might be stronger than replacing the whole thing

[afss]

Just wanted to publicly thank Aaron for putting me in touch with John and for all his help setting things up. Also wanted to thank John for the tank and for being so accommodating to my schedule. (YES the tank made it in one piece) Also thanks for showing me the setup. Anyone that is going to be in the orangeville area I would highly recommend you stop into the DQ on why 10 and see the tank. From what he was saying it will be back up and running soon. How soon i am not sure. It should be a gorgeous tank as he really seems to have a great knowledge of what he is doing with the system.

Thanks again guys

Scott:cheers: :cheers:

[ryan_lalande]

i was wondering the thickness on that 180
it dosent have a center brace does it?

[afss]

Originally posted by afss
The glass is all 5/8 inch.


Tank is a 320.
It does have a center brace, if you read the post i put in on the dimensions etc it says thats what i think caused the problem.

[ryan_lalande]

alright then

if your lookin for a glue to use..i would recomend looking at a glue called wet bond

i do not know where it is sold as i get it from my dad who get sit from the wholesale

it can bond any to materials together and works amazing..it is the strongest glue i ahve ever used and it is none toxic as well it dry's underwater. best bond to rough surfaces tho but really amazing stuff.....i have half a bottle you can have if you wanna try it out on sum other glass and see how it works before using it on the main tank

just an option i guess...reply or pm me if you want the rest of the glue. its liek an epoxy glue that you have to mix together before use, but it takes a full 24 hours to harden. this stuff can even be used to fill in masssive holes in pluming

[afss]

i apreaciate the offer. I assume this being a 2 part epoxy dries hard.. If it doesn i would be nervous of using it.. I kinda like the idea of silicone having some flex to it.

I will check it out

Scott

[ryan_lalande]

well the advantage to the hard drying which this expoy does do, would be more strength...i would imagine silicone being strechy could give under the high amount of water pressure.....also, glass is very slippery and if you ahve used silicon before then you would know that it tends to pull right off smooth surfaces very very very easy

anyways if you want i can definitally give you that tube to try out..and if you liek the stuff i can get you full tubes of it a wholesale pricee..i think its 15 bucks a tube and a tube gives you quite a bit of glue. like more then regular glue tubes


i would suggest trying this glue out on two peices of glass...even try ang glue two beer bottles together...i have used it on acrylic and it works soooo good...if fact i have a new tube and i think i wiull try glueing sum glass togetehr to see how it works.

[ryan_lalande]

i jsut did a search on the net for this stuff, and the stuff that comes up is not the same as what i have...i dont klnow if you can get this in regular stores . And this stuff dries a cream color.

if this help i dont know but worth a shot

[afss]

If i am right silicone is what is used between the glass to hold a tank together. The bead you see isn't the only silicone in there.
I am sure that the stuff would be stronger.. but if it drys solid then it would also be more likely to fail as the tank fills it is going to deform some from the weight of the water. If the bond doesn't have the ability to stretch etc to accommodate for this i am worried that it would fail, or cause failure elsewhere. I may be wrong in this thinking but i am pretty sure this is one of the cases where the strength is just as important as the ability to flex some..

Been wrong before.. so if i am here it won't surprise me:help:

[ryan_lalande]

yeah you could very well be right

i know one thing tho this glue is the strongest you can get like...u cant even make a line in it with your finger nail....in fact it is so strong that is says on the package that if you were to try and pull the gluesd area apart you would break the material glued topgetehr before the glue itself gives way.....i would think that water pressure would cause this stuff to budge an inch

however silicon is used to put tanks together so i would imagien that would work, however silicon is added to the walls of the tank then the glass is pressed together with lots of pressure...i am guessing the crack is still in tack and there would be no way of getting glue in between the crack...i think getting glue in the crack itself would be very very important!. jsut something else to consider

[kentracey]

Hey Scott, you're a brave guy. I'd be scared to leave the cracked piece of glass in there at all, but if I did I'd try to stop it's progression. The way you do it with automotive metals is to drill where the crack ends to stop the crack from continuing further and then fill it with something very strong. I'm not sure how this would apply to glass but it makes sense to me that as long as there is a crack the material is weakened along the crack and it will continue to grow. If you just glue or silicone a piece of glass to the material it would be suport around the crack, but I'm just not sure if that's sufficient. I would at least turn the crack into a hole if it's small enough or drill the ends to stop it from travelling any further. If it's not too much money I'd just replace the whole panel then I could sleep at night and not wake up in a cold sweat thinking of the contents of my beautiful tank all over my basement floor. Like I said Scott, I have no experience whatsoever with this but that is a very big tank under a ton of pressure all the time. The pressure on a full tank is relentless. It never gets a break(until it actually does). It actually amazes me, how tough glass really is, I'm just not sure I'd trust a repair on a tank with that big of a span, with the repair on the side(not the bottom) that is going to have the most movement. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'm paranoid and would definetely wuss out and get the whole panel. But like Sargeant Schultz off Hogan's Heroes said " I know nothing, nothing". I just wanted to put my two cents in (whether they're worth anything or not) so you could get as many opinions as possible. Good luck either way, buddy. I can't wait to see that thing set up (and full or corals).

[Michael_Lambert]

scott,

Somthing i did on my windsheild when it started to crack from a stone, was Apple autoglass told me to use some clear Nail polish ( nail hardener) and run it along the crack to fill it in, this would prevent the crack from creeping further, did this now 2 years ago and it has not moved at all! ..

somthing to concider! ..

or i have heard of people drilling poilet holes into the ends of the cracks to prevent them from going further then using cut panels to cover the crack all together!

[Mitchell]

:wave:

[Mckitrick]

Honestly, if it were my tank, I'd have the panel completely replaced. Probably not the easiest/cheapest solution but definitely the one that provides best "peace of mind".

[Michael_Lambert]

For those who are not sure on how it would work!

to replace the whole back glass properly, Scott would have to strip down all the silicone all the way around the tank and clean all the glass edges.. on all the glass panels.. then re silicone it, as you can not silicone over old silicone.. So you can see how he might be wanting to avoid this!

[afss]

Ken the crack is already as far as it can progress in both directions but the idea of drilling to stop it from going further is a good one. I am not sure if you can see it in the drawing but its kinda like a bite out off the side. It goes from top to side not top to bottom. Not in a rush to get this done so i will be thinking about it and looking into it for some time yet.

Scott

[Mckitrick]

Scott - Did you ask John at NAFB what his recommendation is? He's super cool and will give you good advice.

[afss]

I do plan on asking him, but i expect that he is going to tell me to replace the whole thing.. even if just for liability issues. I know if someone asked me a question in a field i was experienced I would tell them the safe tried and true method. Wouldn't want the person coming back and saying that i said it would be OK. kinda a liability issue.

Scott