Ich

[mpleleaf]

Can you explain why my Butterfly seems to have more Ich spots on him/ her in the morning than at night? They seem to disappear in the morning after the light is on for awhile. My theory is that the cleaner shrimp cleans the spots after the light is on and not during the night while he is sleeping. Kevin however believes it is something to do with the fluctuations in the PH levels at night. What is the answer ????? Any help would be appreciated as this may be grounds for divorce if we cannot settle this arguement. LOL !!!!! Also, he would like to know if a larger tank is in store for him ??? I say NO WAY !!!LMAO !!!!

[afss]

Well, as i am sure you know.. Ich can be brought on by stress.
Buterflys can be sensative fish, so changes in Temp, PH, etc may be causing stress. If this were the case though it should be getting stressed when the ph swings in the morning again, same for the temp.

I would bet that the cleaner shrimp is helping durring the day. This however doesn't mean that the PH or the TEMP or any other number of issues isn't adding to the ich.

How long has the tank been set up?
What size is it?
What do you use for filtration?
How long have you had this fish?
How long has it had ich?
What are its other tank mates?

Scott

[mpleleaf]

Hi Scott ! The 77 G. tank been set up for about a year , It's got a 4" dsb 100 lbs LR , I have a fluval and a emperor running only for recirculation @ 2 PH's. The fish we've had for a month with the Ich appearing 2 days ago . He's in with 2 shrimp ( cleaner/ blood ) 4 damsels and a bahama starfish . I know that starfish are carriers of Ich and every once in a while the BF will peck at him in passing but nothing of concern . I keep telling Trina the tank is to small and the parameters keep changing for am to pm in hopes she'll agree to a larger tank, lol, it's not working , but seriously they are all right on (PH falls from 8.6 to 8.4 @ pm ) . I'm stumped , I thought maybe it was diet so I'm trying garlic !

[pluff]

Hey Kevin,Hmmmmm when are u gonna learn not to buy anything from PETS UNLIMITED,or VILLAGE PETS :eek1: I just bought some fish from Vancover,Including a hippo tang that is ich prone fish.Mine is doing awesome with no ich at all.I told u before we could do a order together,that way we know were getting good healthy fish,and livestock.

Best of luck with the butterfly.
:cheers:

[mpleleaf]

Hey Marcel , it was Trina who brought them home , to rescue them I think , they were in healthy condition for over 2 weeks and then this just happened ! The BF is just going about business without a care so it's really not affecting him at all ! The starfish is aces , I really can't say anything bad about pets yet. I will say you cant go in there ignorant and rely on the staff . You've got to know your stuff and if in doubt leave without !lol

[McQ]

Originally posted by mpleleaf
I will say you cant go in there ignorant and rely on the staff . You've got to know your stuff and if in doubt leave without !lol

I agree:D I go in there about once a week just to ask the staff questions. I get a kick out of some of their answers:laugh: What is really funny is eavsdropping (sp) when they get a customer that they know knows absolutly nothing about fish.

[mpleleaf]

Soooo! Anybody care to guess as to what's causing the spots on the BF ! I'm having a hard time believeing that it's poor quality fish as he had no signs of at time of purchase , a time when the most possible stress can be put on a fish. Surely to come out now it has to be something that just come around in the last few days prior to the first sightings of Ich , would it not? Could temp. fluctuations from 78 deg. in the pm and by mid morning sometimes 82deg.?

[Michael_Lambert]

are you sure they are the ICK parasites... or just white blotches..

becouse like most fish they look different when stressed out.. so it could be just his stress look.. being stressed out just becouse the lights came on..

[mpleleaf]

I'm pretty sure the spots are there before the lights come on but tommorrow I'll check that for sure !

[afss]

The garlic may help control the ich, but typically if their is ich there is an underlying problem.. typically stress.

It could be that the tank is too small. How big is the fish?

From the sounds of it i doubt that it is any of the critters you have. Atleast not the ones you know about. Could be a crab or something bothering it at night. I wouldn't think that would cause the coming and going you see though, so my bets are still on the shrimp helping out durring the day.

There are comercially available reef safe treatments too that may help, but again these are only a bandage.. IMO.

What is your temp at.. does it fluctuate much over night?

How long are your lights on for? do they all come on at once or are they stagered?

Scott

[mpleleaf]

Hi Scott , the fish is only 2 1/2 " overall and the lights come on staggered 1 set at 10 am , the other at 12 noon for a 10 hr period .I'm only running NO flourescents and in answer to your other Q . The temp had crept to 81 , so adjusted it back to 78 . My PH bounces between 8.3 night to 8.6 daytime . So I thought I may try filling my fluval that normally runs with no media with CC to help stabilize my PH ? I also had a hitchhiker I received on a piece of LR , blue emerald crab I believe but I haven't seen him for 3 mth's , just assume he left me for higher places. This is a stumper but I vow to see the fish back to health .

[Michael_Lambert]

Mpleleaf,

I think that kind of a swing in ph is too bad, now 8.6 i think is kinda high but not too bad.

have you though about running a sump or refugium with 24/7 lighting? that would help stablize the ph.

[afss]

Idealy you don't want any ph change, but I think its fairly common to have swings of .2 or .3 . The reading of 8.6 could just be that kit reads a bit higher than it really is too.

Scott

[mpleleaf]

Your probably right about the kits , I take them with a grain of salt and I am in the process of getting a sump together but its happening kind of slow. I heard or read somewhere that CC will stabilize PH , true or false , I know its not a very good way but all I've got for now . I was thinking of getting a set of moon lights would this have the same affect as running lights in a sump at night ?

[Michael_Lambert]

Crushed coral, might help some... not sure if it would be eough, as for the moon lights really dont think they would do the same.. its the lights in a sump with some say calupra or macroalage would stablize the ph.

[mpleleaf]

I'm calling in all stops , just called 4 friends to see if I can get a used tank between 30-40 gal to get this sump under way .

[Michael_Lambert]

Here are the shots that you sent me..

Looks like a Foxface?
http://aquariumpros.ca/photopost/data/500/246DSC01188-med.JPG

http://aquariumpros.ca/photopost/data/500/246DSC01192-med.JPG

[afss]

not a fox face.. not sure what it is though

[VolitanVixen]

i think it kinda looks like a raccoon butterfly ... i saw a pic of them in a fish book once and loved the colouration of them ... thing is, that one has kind of different markings (white face instead of yellow, white and black stripes the full height of the fish, etc) ... but it could be possible ... either way, it's a beautiful fish :)

http://www.fishbase.org/Photos/PicturesSummary.cfm?StartRow=1&ID=5565&what=species

[VolitanVixen]

now u guys have got me curious as to what it is LOL ... i found another one

http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.cfm?genusname=Chaetodon&speciesname=wiebeli

[Michael_Lambert]

Its really hard to see in that pic :(

[mpleleaf]

I know it's not a great picture but at least I didn't get my finger this time . The little fellas a mystery but I still think he's a juvy racoon .