ideas for a new reef setup?

[pbutkovich]

It’s time to refinance my house mortgage, and my wife says “Why not add a few grand to the mortgage, and get that really big reef tank you want in the basement?” Who am I to argue with logic like that? So here’s my question: If you were about to create a new reef setup, what items would you put onto your “want” list. I am thinking of a tank that is 84” long, 24”tall and am undecided between 24” and 30” deep.
Lighting? 250 or 400 watt MH
Vho actinics? How many watts?

Circulation I have always just used powerheads in my other two tanks. What are some good options?
Ideas on sumps and refugiums would also be appreciated.

Where do you like the built in overflows in your tanks and why. What did you do to your system that you would recommend, or what did you do that you wished that you never had?
I have an idea of what Tim will say right away…”KICK A** SKIMMER” …all in caps of course.
Please, any ideas or thoughts would be appreciated. I don’t want to get this thing all plumbed in and running and then wish that I had thought to do something else. Remember that even though this baby is getting tacked onto my mortgage, it is not an
endless budget.

[Michael_Lambert]

Of course we are going to both live our dreams through your house! :) Like you where doing with my tank till you had to go and out do me !


Where do you like the built in overflows in your tanks and why. What did you do to your system that you would recommend, or what did you do that you wished that you never had?

I would go with a tank that large, go with a center overflow box, 2 2 1/2 inch holes.. Then do 4 retuns 1 inche in size.. 2 in the center on either side of hte overflow box and then 1 in each corner! .. like my tank..!!



Circulation I have always just used powerheads in my other two tanks. What are some good options?

i would go with two Retun pumps, Just incase one dies. you got hte back up running ... Pick up a used 90G tank for the sump, and a used 66G for the refugium

the rest.. When you get the money... i wil drop in and we can build it all in our heads! :) then you can tell august that she can expect a new head for dinner everynite.. beocuse im moving in! :)

[pbutkovich]

I know there are some people out there with stong opinions on how to set up a reef tank. Lets hear your suggestions. Some of you are talking about Tunzes alot lately, anything else you would want on a new setup?

[Mitchell]

and my wife says “Why not add a few grand to the mortgage, and get that really big reef tank you want in the basement?”

Hey Paul.

I just read that to JoAnne. She said you deserve a slap upside the head for typing that.:D

On a more serious note...

I would go with a 30" depth for the aquascaping.

We have a sump for you ;) so no need to worry about that.

If you are skimming then check out an MTC

[Daniel Schubert]

That would be a very nice size indeed, but a tank that big would have to be built on site, unless you have a lot of room to get it down the stairs,. A few grand would only cover the cost of the tank and stand. As for the overflow, that would depend on were you are placing the tank. If it were an in-wall installation then I would go with two corner overflow's. I thought of the center overflow for my next tank but I'm not sure if I like to loss the room in the middle of the tank. By having two corner overflows it leaves the middle more open, plus I think you get better water flow (IMHO). If the tank is going to be visible from the sides as well then the center overflow maybe your better choice. 84x24X30 would be approx. 260 gallons with that size I think I'd get a 100 + gallon refugium and a really good skimmer like MTC HSA 1000, PM Bullet 3, Aerofoamer etc. For lighting you would need to go with at least 4 MH 250's or 400's spaced evenly across the tank supplemented by a couple of atinc's. I personally would love a large tank but keep in mind the operating costs, light bulbs changes, electricity etc. The bigger the tank the higher the costs. You also need to invest in a good calcium reactor, using B-ionic or kalkwasser will get very expensive for that volume of water. Myself I'm considering a bigger tank, my tangs are out growing my 75 gallon tank, and they need more room. But I'm think of a 180, it's the biggest standard size and at 72X24X24 it's still fairly affordable. I'd get the biggest tank I could comfortable afford. For circulation I consider a closed loop system with two sea located in the back (even though I think they are over priced for what you get), they work well and provide great circulation.
Just my 0.02 cents worth

[Michael_Lambert]

i like the corner overflows for in wall tanks.. but im not sure if he us building it into the wall :)

[ian cooper]

I have my 180 built into a wall in my basement with a "fishroom" behind the tank. I f I were to do it over again I would change a few things. For aesthetics my tank is built up so it is six feet from the top of the tank to the floor. Looks great from the outside as you look into the centre of the water and up to the surface, however, maintenance is a bugger. I would make sure you are able to access the front of the tank with removable panels or something in the wall above the tank as it is very hard to do maintenance when you have to stand on a stepladder, reach over two feet, then down two feet to clean the front bottom glass. The great part is the room is soundproofed so no water sounds when the door is shut and it is sealed at the bottom so water leaks don't travel to the rest of the basement. Remember too that tghe bigger the tank, the cost associated with it exponentially increases. When I had trouble with the chemisrty of my water and required a massive water change, I was unable to do so because of the cost and the inability to make up 200 gallons of water quickly. Also you are completely dependent on equipment. A small tank can get by with a few powerheads for a week or so until a new pump could be purchased if something goes wrong with the old one. For me, when the main pump goes, it is very difficult to provide even minimal water flow without going out and spending a few hundred more for a new one - no time to look for deals etc. Just a couple of points, sometimes I miss my old 90 gallon for ease of maintenance, cost and the fact that your money can go to livestock and not pumps, lights, rock, huge skimmers etc. Just my 2 cents worth.
Ian

[ian cooper]

Just thought of something else too. If you include a few thousand for the tank in your mortgage, even at 5%, by the time the amortization period is over the tank and setup equipment will have cost you tens of thousands of dollars.
Ian

[afss]

I have to agree with Ian on the cost issue. A few thousand now (depending on what you have left owing and what your payments are) could cost you a bundel.

I love a big tank, but I have to agree typically its going to cost you huge to get a tank that size. If i remember right the best price i have heard for a 180 is around 480 new. For comparison a 130 is around 270. As you can see the price goes up fast. Typically you can add the costs of overflows, drilling, bulkheads etc etc etc ontop of the base those prices. Add to this the cost of lighting, pumps, saltmix, etc etc and you will quickly be over a few grand.

I would suggest talking to Johnny at NAFB. He builds nice tanks, and can probably give you a price estamate on what you want. Maybe you could look at a 180 or something similar.

If i were to put a tank as high as ian has i would try to build a platform around the back side of the tank to make access easier and safer than a step ladder.

I personally like tanks that are atleast 24 inches front to back, and prefer ones that are 30 inches. That extra depth really adds to the look of a tank. Dereks 5' 187 is a sweet looking tank. 60"*30*24 tall If i remember right.

Scott

[Chrismo]

Your wife sounds too good to be true, she have a sister?

I've been thinking of someday having a set of tanks built into the wall stagged. One a standing height, and one at sitting height... The top one can flow into the lower one, which then goes to your sump and loops back up into the top one,

And 2 smaller tanks might be cheaper and easier to run than one huge one.

One could be a predator tank maybe while the other is a reef... or something..

Enjoy the planning. Check out that new book with all the best tanks of the world. (dont remember what it's called)
Chrismo

[Sohal Tang]

Hey Paul...thanks for the plug!! hahahaah
I must apologize for the CAPS...My hand just goes to the Shift bar so easy....I am computer dumb and I did not realize that it means you are yelling or at least if I did-I forgot...heheh So...I will
definitely try to refrain from using caps to express myself..hehe

Now...to answer your question of...if I won a MILLION what kind of tank I would set up..hehe...

Seriously.... I would take a drive 3 hours north on a beautiful
Saturday and visit with a guy named Andy who is a friend of
mine that would be more then willing to show you his set up
of which after seeing you will be filled with ideas and steered
in an excellent direction....

and....of course....whatever you do get a KICK A*$ SKIMMER!! HEHEHEHE (there go them caps again! hehe )

I suggest you email Andy direct and set up a date to meet
with him .... ( I was there yesterday and his tank is
absolutely breathtaking...you will be stunned I promise you
as it is 280 gallons of pure beauty, art and expertise )


that....is the best advice I can give you .....

dont forget the skimmer!! hehhe

Take care,
Tim
:cheers:

[pbutkovich]

Guys thanks for the great ideas. After getting a general idea of the price difference between a 6 foot and 7 foot tank, I may just go with a 6. Chrismo has me thinking though...two smaller tanks linked. I am definately going to link it to a sump refugium of some kind. I have an old 100 gal that I had just set up and don't really like all that much, (only 18" deep), that I will use as sump etc. I do have a room beside the tank, not behind unfortunately that I will be using as the fish room where the 100 will go.
If I build it like I want to, then the back will have to be enclosed behind a TV/ bookcase kind of setup. No room for back access unfortunately. Good idea for a platform though.
Thanks for thinking about the amortization Ian:P I don't even want to think about that!
Thanks agin guys, it helps to get some other peoples views before getting a new setup. I want to take this one slow and avoid some of the misstakes that my LFS suggested when I first started 2 years ago.
Paul

[pbutkovich]

Almost forgot...no sister and Chrismo what book are you talking about? It sounds like something I'd love to get a hold of. Pictures of great tanks, can't beat that.

[2Oceans]

Hi Paul I also would agree with what has been said, a large tank typically 180 & larger is a substantial investment, maintenance time , maintenance cost yearly , you have to fill the darn thing , it all adds up & two K is not going to get you far, check some of the threads on Reef Central pertaining to end setup costs on a large reefs, on the low end 5K & upwards of 10k to get really automated are not uncommon, do not get me wrong a well cared for large reef tank is an awsome site to behold but you have to ask yourself are you willing to be a Slave to your tank " Literally"

I Have a life & other hobbies so for myself my present 5 yr old 90g reef has been an easy size to maintain other than a recent algae problem ,won`t go there & not as much of a drain on the funds , if I was to do it over I would have went from my first 50g to a 125g , So having said that I have been patient long enough ! & the time has come also for me for a Larger Tank.

The perfect size tank at least for me is a 150g dual overflow 5`x 24 x 24 , I would have went for 30" deep but can not accomidate it where it is going. I have got the stand 80 % complete, oak with a cherry stain, have not ironed out my plumbing plans as of yet but hope to order my tank soon ! I do like the Tunze Turbelles with controler but they are pretty expensive. I hope to post some pics of the progress sometime, so go with the system that will work best for you & like you mentioned it`s not an endless budget.

Half the Fun is Planning !!!!! :D
John

[Sohal Tang]

I agree with Jeg on tank size....
I used to have a 180 gallon tank...and after a while I realized
that I was setting up the way I did not want...which was
with less rock then I should have had, with less lighting then I should have had....with less corals then I should have had...etc etc....allllll because of the size of the darn thing (although the fish I had and combination and multiples of them would surely blow you away..they were truly gorgeous)

I went to a 50 gallon after the 180 and got a case of
clustophobia as it was size shock...but...I did have an
enormous amount of enjoyment from the 50 gallon..it was
easy to fill and maintain etc...

I had always envied two friends of mine who both had 90 gallons and seemed to have fuller tanks....

So...this time around I bought a 90 gallon and I am totally
pleased with the size and effort needed to maintain this tank....
And...I feel I will easily fill it with the best I can get my hands on
in corals and live rock etc....and the lights are more then adequate people are telling me....so...satisfaction finally....

Size of tank is personal preference definitely.....it is awesome
to have a huge tank...but the time and effort required to
maintain them properly cannot be overlooked or disapointment could be the end result... It does boil down to the level of
commitment and time a reefer has in addition to the desire of
tank size..... I want the biggest tank I can afford....on the other hand I do not in any way feel I could properly handle a 300 gallon
for example at this point...but...power too and congratulations to the people who can...

Tim

[ian cooper]

Paul, I am only ten minutes south of you so if you ever wanted to stop by and take a look at the tank, my door is always open (lets out heat from the halides).
Ian

[pbutkovich]

Ian
I was hoping you'd volunteer but didn't want to ask. I'd love to come check out your system. I'll pm you later to see when your home this week or next. Thanks.
Paul

[Michael_Lambert]

Ian's allways home.!! .. Makes sure you take a bucket to steal some of his shrooom! :) or atleast the shrooms i owe him that im going to start cutting soon! .. if you still want them Ian.

[Chrismo]

That Book I was talking about was called "Ultimate Marine Aquariums"
By Mike Paletta...

It was mentioned in the latest issue of MAST's Atol magazine, and I've heard a few people talk about it on RC.

Chris

[pbutkovich]

Thanks to all that replied to my post.:thanks: I have purchased a 6' 180 gal. The cost of the 7' was just too much to justify. So far I have:
1. 180G Drilled & Plumbed Reef tank (twin Back corner overflows)
bulkheads in and ready to plumb
2. 3X400W MH lighting system with 10k and 65k bulbs
3. 2 NO actinic
4. Nock-off Areofoamer 830 Skimmer
5. 100gal tank to use as sump/refugium
6. 4.5" of Bomix already in the 100 gal
7. 6 fans in the existing hood

I would really like some ideas on how to set up a refugium/sump in the 100 gal.

I am also thinking a Calcium reactor and RO unit are a must.

I will need two pumps, one for the skimmer and one to get the water from the 180 to the 100. Any thoughts on pumps? Anyone have a Aerofoamer 830? If so what pump do you run? What other things do you guys have in your tanks besides plain old powerheads? I have heard of a SQWD but not to sure on exactly what they are or do.
Thanks again.

[Mike]

Hey - if you need any help lifting that thing or anything, I think I'm just down the road from you!

[pbutkovich]

I'll take you up on that if your around. Right now I'm looking at Friday the 26Th or early Saturday the 27Th for pick up date. Pick up is also in barrie.

[2Oceans]

Hi I may also be available to give you a hand but will need a few days notice ,work shift work.

[Sohal Tang]

Paul are you going IN SUMP for the pump for the skimmer
or are you dry mounting it....


If you are going dry then a genex brand is apparently excellent.
orrrr if you are going in sump then, despite opinions that back pressure will not help efforts etc.....as it is not a pressure rated pump etcetc...I would STILL recommend a MAG 24 FOR THE SKIMMER....I am sure if you contact the MFG they will tell you that
the MAG24 will do the trick.....

I went with the MAG18 for my 24" and it is working excellent....
The mfg told me that most people use the MAG on this skimmer and get excellent results of course if you are going dry mount
then a pressure rated pump would be in your best interest
in the long run...

I know Andy up north uses a MAG24 and loves it.
Thats on his incredible 280 gallon gorgeous tank.

Congrats on the new super tank Paul!
Good luck
Tim
:D

[Mike]

I usually get home from work on Friday about 6:00 to 6:30 - I don't know what my plans are that weekend, but if I'm around, I'll give you a hand! How heavy is a 180, by the way?

[pbutkovich]

Not sure the weight. I know that it would probably be a six man job. Six of us very easily lifted Dmans beautiful new 187 into place last week. The guy that I got the tank from said he would try to have a couple friends over to help and it looks like there are a few more here that are willing. Thanks guys!
Paul

[bertcmg]

As for pumps I would suggest you go with a Vilocity T4 Its is giving me about 1200GPH at 3 Ft

Its so quiet that I have to look at my water to make sure its running ( No BS)

Also it has dry run protection , ( the pump stops )

2 Year no fault warranty

Bought it at jlaquatics for $277 Takes in plus $25 Shipping

When they said quiet Pump I thought ok that means less noisy than my LIL giant 4

But this thing is not quiet it's

silent

Also 4 Guys is plenty for a 180 I only had me and my buddy and we got the six footer up to my loft climbing at least 30 steps