Has anyone ordered livestock from Blue Zoo Aquatics?

[SeaGal]

I found their website and the site is very informative for each species. They also have a 7 day money back guarantee. Has anyone ordered like this online? The company is located in California, I'm on the east coast. Would this pose a potential problem? It appears they overnight everything fedex.

Thanks to anyone who can lend experieince to this company.

[ajx22]

There are laws and required permits (CITES ) to order out of country.

Both you and they are both in the USA - so you would be able to order from them...members in Canada would NOT.

You might want to check on Reef Central (http://www.reefcentral.com) to see reviews of US-based suppliers.

HTH ,

[SeaGal]

Sorry AJ, was an innocent question. Had no idea about certain rules pertaining to Canadian companies vs US companies.

Maybe I'd be better off joining the Reef Central forum instead.

[ajx22]

Completely understood - I wasn't trying to imply anything other then few members here would be able to provide you feedback from ordering from a US-based company due to legalities.

By no means does this change our willingness to help you by any possible means - just wanted to let you know where you would find relevant answers to your store/shopping related questions too.

[SeaGal]

Thanks AJ, I really enjoy this site and its community. Everyone has been so supportive, helpful and encouraging. (Even with my lack of experience and knowledge, I've learned sooooo much already from this site and your members and the information y'all share.)

I just assumed some folks may have used that company online and could provide a review, never even thinking that your site being canadian that they couldn't order from them.

[bigtyguyy]

:welcome2:

:cheers2:

[reefy]

I have ordered live fish and corals as well as dry goods from the west coast. petsolutions.com is based in california and the overnight shipping was fine. The fish and corals were in good health. Never had any problems.

[MoonTang]

I have ordered live fish and corals as well as dry goods from the west coast. petsolutions.com is based in california and the overnight shipping was fine. The fish and corals were in good health. Never had any problems.


Was shipping expensive??

[ajx22]

Shipping coral/rock from the US to Canada requires a CITES permit which needs to be applied for (no guarantees) - takes weeks to months to get issued (if it's approved), and costs $200USD/permit.

Shipping cross boarder without a CITES permit is illegal...and subject to HUGE fines!! ($10,000USD or more)

As a consumer - you are not going to get one.

You need to buy livestock from a Canadian company, as they have already paid the appropriate fees/duties/taxes and permits.

Doing a search here on AP.ca; using the term import will give you all sorts of previous posts/threads about this.

As with anything - "ignorance of the law is not an excuse". If you try to claim or receive a shipment that has circumvented CITES - YOU can be in legal trouble as YOU are the importing party.

In a word - DON'T.

[reefy]

i do not ship across the border.
i takes me about 30 min to cross so i ship the livestock to a fed-ex store and request a hold. i then go and pick it up stop at customs and pay my duties if they tell me to somtimes if i bring back livesotck under$500 they let me go through without stopping to pay any duties. they make no mention of cities when they look at the list of livestock i am bringing in. however they do ask if i am bringing it in for a buisness or for a personal aquariums.

[ajx22]

i do not ship across the border.
i takes me about 30 min to cross so i ship the livestock to a fed-ex store and request a hold. i then go and pick it up stop at customs and pay my duties if they tell me to somtimes if i bring back livesotck under$500 they let me go through without stopping to pay any duties. they make no mention of cities when they look at the list of livestock i am bringing in. however they do ask if i am bringing it in for a buisness or for a personal aquariums.

You are still breaking the law and CAN be charged + have the animals seized.

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse - it is YOUR responsibility to KNOW.

I assure you that this forum is monitored by all the law enforcement agencies - and I would strongly suggest that you STOP this illegal practice immediately.

[reefy]

okay.

[reefy]

Before I ordered I did do a quick search through the CITES database at cites.org. I could not find any livestock that I bought that is CITES-listed. They were in the UNEP-WCMC Species database but they were non-CITES-listed species therefore not under CITES.

[ajx22]

Before I ordered I did do a quick search through the CITES database at cites.org. I could not find any livestock that I bought that is CITES-listed. They were in the UNEP-WCMC Species database but they were non-CITES-listed species therefore not under CITES.

If you're not a lawyer - you will have a very hard time reading the actual CITES listings. I've been doing this for many, many years - and even I don't have the patience to try to read all the appendixes.


Did you transport ANY corals that were mounted on any piece of rock?
ie. all but unmounted frags.

If the answer is YES - you broke the law.

[reefy]

I have looked throught the appendices and have not found one coral I bought that is CITES listed (valid from 4 March 2007). They were also attached to an aragonite plug not to a piece of rock. They were all also aquacultured.

[ajx22]

I have looked throught the appendices and have not found one coral I bought that is CITES listed (valid from 4 March 2007). They were also attached to an aragonite plug not to a piece of rock. They were all also aquacultured.
I'm not going to argue with you - do what you will/may.

When you transport corals across the boarder - you had better make 1000% sure that you can prove to everyone involved that you are 1000% right...as unlike the normal court system of "Presumed innocent until proven guilty" - at the boarder, you are "Guilty until you can PROVE otherwise".

In other words - You want to have copies of all CITES appendixes + faxes from CITES stating that the animals you're claiming aren't protected + have books showing exact photos of each animal you're carrying to prove that it is what you claim it is...

Talk to ANYONE that has been doing this for a while - and they can be some major *&&^%&^'s. I've seen 20+ box shipments HELD at the boarder while they reviewed every box for content against the INCLUDED CITES permit.


Play with fire - you WILL get burned...

Good luck.

[River]

Many years ago a friend and I would go on a trip to Michigan to make the rounds of the pet shops. We both brought home fish and some dry goods the only thing that was a small problem was the salt. The border guard didn't know what it would fall under. He was thinking about table salt. Any how the only thing we had to pay duty on was the salt. Between us we had 5 or six fish. So my question is has this changed can we no longer bring fish over or is it just corals that are against the law to bring across.
My wife and I were thinking of taking a trip across the border next weekend and I thought I would check out the pet stores. Its been 20 yrs at least since I've gone.

[reefy]

Many years ago a friend and I would go on a trip to Michigan to make the rounds of the pet shops. We both brought home fish and some dry goods the only thing that was a small problem was the salt. The border guard didn't know what it would fall under. He was thinking about table salt. Any how the only thing we had to pay duty on was the salt. Between us we had 5 or six fish. So my question is has this changed can we no longer bring fish over or is it just corals that are against the law to bring across.
My wife and I were thinking of taking a trip across the border next weekend and I thought I would check out the pet stores. Its been 20 yrs at least since I've gone.
River,

Most fish are okay to bring over.

The only corals that are CITES listed are:
Helioporidae spp. (Blue Corals)
Tubiporidae spp. (Organ-pipe corals)
Antipatharia spp. (Black Corals)
Scleractinia spp. (Stony Corals)
Milleporidae spp. (Fire Corals)
Stylasteridae spp. (Lace Corals)

I don't think you'd be putting any of these 6 species of corals in your aquarium anyways.

I have just brought some corals over the border last week. There were no problems because they are not CITES listed. And if the border guards didn't seize them then they are obviously okay to bring over. I don't understand how I can be breaking the law or you would be if you bought any fish or corals in Michigan that aren't CITES listed.