Looking for affordable (read: cheap) filter replacements for R/O unit

[ScottM]

I recently bought Mitch's R/O unit (4 stage Reef Pure - it also seems to be an Aqua FX Barracuda by appearance) and have found all the filters are pretty much shot (hey thanks Mitch! j/k).

Any idea where i could find some affordable replacements? I believe i only need the sediment, carbon block and DI...

thanks...Scott

[Daniel Schubert]

I bought my sediment and carbon block at Canadian Tire as for the DI, not sure

[Andy]

scott

why don't you buy mixed bed di resin in bulk. It reduces your cost by 1/4.

Andy

[ScottM]

Hi Andy

I'm pretty new to the world of DI - what's involved with bulk DI resin and refilling?

Scott

[ScottM]

Hi Daniel

Do you know what micron level your sediment filter is?

Scott

[ajx22]

Originally posted by Scott MacGregor
I recently bought Mitch's R/O unit (4 stage Reef Pure - it also seems to be an Aqua FX Barracuda by appearance) and have found all the filters are pretty much shot (hey thanks Mitch! j/k).

Any idea where i could find some affordable replacements? I believe i only need the sediment, carbon block and DI...

thanks...Scott

Scott,

I have all the replacements you want here...

1-micron Sediment - $9.99
2-micron Solid Carbon Block - $19.99
Mixed-Bed Resin DI - $50.00


You can buy the replacements @ places like Canadian Tire...but make sure that you check to ensure that they are the correct micron ratings. Most sold @ Canadian Tire and Home Depot are made for drinking water kits...and have a much higher micron rating. This allows more debris through...and will cause TFC Membrane exhaustion faster.

Drop me an e-mail or call if you want them. I can always get you the replacements as I still deal with my local supplier for RO & RO/DI equipment.

Cheers,

[ajx22]

Originally posted by Scott MacGregor
Hi Andy

I'm pretty new to the world of DI - what's involved with bulk DI resin and refilling?

Scott

Basically - you buy a refillable DI cartridge (I have one if you want) - and then just buy the resin in bulk from a supplier. The more you buy...the cheaper it is. You will find that you have to place a fairly large order to get the desired price drop.

Then all you do is pour the resin into the cartridge - and place it into the housing.

[Mckitrick]

Scott,

http://cgi.*********/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2344284283&category=20684

This is the guy I got my RO unit from.

The link above is for 20 Filters
Four 5 Micron Sediment
Four Granular Coconut Carbon
Four 1 Micron Carbon Block
Four Post Carbon Filters
Four DI Filters Mitsubishi KAM115

$75US + $20 for Shipping
This averages out to $6.65CDN per filter (which isn't quite right because the DI filters are a lot more money than the carbon/sediment filters).

You want affordable? That's the best price you'll find..

[Daniel Schubert]

Scott

I think the sediment filter was 5 microns
and the carbon block was 1 micron

[ScottM]

Thanks Daniel

Thanks also Paul - i just emailed him about mixing and matching a case to suit my needs a little better.

Scott

[ajx22]

Originally posted by Paul_BB_Guy

Four 5 Micron Sediment
Four Granular Coconut Carbon
Four 1 Micron Carbon Block
Four Post Carbon Filters
Four DI Filters Mitsubishi KAM115

$75US + $20 for Shipping
This averages out to $6.65CDN per filter (which isn't quite right because the DI filters are a lot more money than the carbon/sediment filters).

You want affordable? That's the best price you'll find..

Use some caution here...

These prices are still less then 1/2 of wholesale cost - so SOMETHING isn't right.

5-micron sediment - is too large and will exhaust/clog your carbon too fast.

1-micron Carbon block - too small. You don't want to have the carbon block catching sediment that the initial sediment filter was supposed to catch. The carbon block is only supposed to remove the chlorine - NOT the sediment.

Granular carbon - is what is called a taste polisher - and doesn't do anything productive to the water in respect to aquarium-safe RO/DI.

Nuclear-grade resin (the type used in RO/DI units) isn't cheap - and there is no way to get x4 DI's for $75 let alone the other 16 filters.

10 to 1 - these are sub-standard filters from China. I have been approached by numerous Chinese companies to sell these - but have not due to the items being sub-standard and produced in sweat-shops.

We worry about "ethical" treatment of our fish and corals - yet say nothing about the same rights of other human beings?

Honestly folks...I have only ever sold the best quality items to customers...and have only made a tiny profit on any of the items I sold (part of the reason I am not selling online anymore). The filters I had listed above that I had for sale...are at cost...so do the math.

Just like the old saying goes "If it looks/sounds too good to be true....."

[ScottM]

Thanks AJ...

I'm just going through a list of prices vs quality etc as i type this...

Scott

[ajx22]

Originally posted by Scott MacGregor
Thanks AJ...

I'm just going through a list of prices vs quality etc as i type this...

Scott

No problem Scott...just be careful that your $20 savings now doesn't cost you a $100 TFC membrane down the road.

I've seen it happen too many times, and always try to keep it from happening again.

Cheers,

[Mitchell]

(hey thanks Mitch! j/k).

:confused: um...I thought you new they were used ? Actually I know I told you :confused:

[Mckitrick]

My TDS meter reads 160 pre filter.
It reads 6 post filter and THAT was before adding the DI stage to it. That was with only the RO and prefilters.

Chinese or not, they're filtering just fine and I'm saving lots of money.
The 5 Micron Granular Activated Carbon says Aqua Safe USA.
The 1 Micron filter says Design in USA (so they might be made elsewhere).
The other filters do not have any markings designating where they are made.

My system has the following stages
Stage 1 - Sediment
Stage 2 - 5 Micron
Stage 3 - 1 Micron
Stage 4 - RO
Stage 5 - DI
Stage 6 - Final Carbon filter

In all fairness to AJ, I doubt these are as high quality as what he sells (if they're less than HALF the price of AJ's wholesale, how COULD they be), but I guess what I'm saying is that it's working fine and that's good enough for me.

The guy who sells these guarantees them for 5 years and he IS a Canuck (in BC) so I'm happy with it. :wave:

[ajx22]

Originally posted by Paul_BB_Guy
My TDS meter reads 160 pre filter.
It reads 6 post filter and THAT was before adding the DI stage to it. That was with only the RO and prefilters.

Chinese or not, they're filtering just fine and I'm saving lots of money.
The 5 Micron Granular Activated Carbon says Aqua Safe USA.
The 1 Micron filter says Design in USA (so they might be made elsewhere).
The other filters do not have any markings designating where they are made.

My system has the following stages
Stage 1 - Sediment
Stage 2 - 5 Micron
Stage 3 - 1 Micron
Stage 4 - RO
Stage 5 - DI
Stage 6 - Final Carbon filter

In all fairness to AJ, I doubt these are as high quality as what he sells (if they're less than HALF the price of AJ's wholesale, how COULD they be), but I guess what I'm saying is that it's working fine and that's good enough for me.

The guy who sells these guarantees them for 5 years and he IS a Canuck (in BC) so I'm happy with it. :wave:

One problem being is having a prefilter with a larger filter rating then the carbon. The entire point of the PRE-filter is to protect the rest of the components. It's like having a house with open windows - and leaving the screens in the garage...it defeats the point of having them all together. Having the carbon collect the particulate matter doesn't let the carbon do it's job.

As for your system...unless the final carbon filter is being used just before a drinking water faucet...it is doing absolutely nothing as stage 6. The reason that the carbon is placed BEFORE the RO membrane is bacause chlorine will destroy the TFC membrane. In a drinking water kit - the final carbon is usually a coconut shell taste polisher - used to ADD some flavour to the mineral depleted water.

Prefilters and the carbon are the pawns in your RO or RO/DI system - left out to protect the expensive RO membrane. I'm not saying that they aren't any good - just that whoever is selling them does not know what THEY are doing. Maybe he knows somebody to get the filters so cheap - but he honestly knows nothing about Ro or RO/DI filters - or if he does - he's TRYING to sabotage your RO membrane.

Like your TDS meter shows...your filter is working...but you are not getting the use of the carbon filters if they are what is catching all the particulate matter.

If you don't believe me...go to Reef Central and ask in the Sponsor Forums. E-mail any of the large manufacturers. I was taught about Ro and RO/DI by an environmental engineer who knows water filtration like it was their life.

I am sorry if you were told otherwise - but the system you have set-up - running the filters that you have - is not an effective system even if it is saving you a few bucks. If you were getting the proper filters, and had them in the proper order - and they were each doing their intended jobs...then I would say that the savings was worth it.

Question...he guarantees the FILTERS or the unit for 5-years? If it's the filters...then we really have to talk. Filters will last 100 years UNUSED - yet your prefilters (sediment and carbon) MUST be changed every 3-6 months (depending on your water). If it's the unit...there is NOTHING on/in the units to break so it's a gimmick warranty. The only way for a filter unit to break down is if it PHYSICALLY gets dropped, or a fitting breaks from wear.

Not trying to argue...only educate everyone here of the FACTS of water filtration.

Best wishes always,

[ScottM]

um...I thought you new they were used ? Actually I know I told you

Hey Mitch - i was just razzing ya (everyone else seems to do it here so i thought i'd give it a try)!

I knew it would need new filters - no big deal

Scott

[Mckitrick]

I appreciate your trying to educate the masses (or me anyway).

Either I'm not understanding your analogy or you didn't state it correctly. You mention having a prefilter with a larger filter rating than the carbon is wrong. You equate it to having an open window and leaving the screens in the garbage.

Stage one is not a carbon filter. It's a sediment filter (like a compressed floss) which "collects the particulate matter."

Do you mean to say that the 1 Micron cartridge should come BEFORE the 5 Micron? :confused: To recycle your analogy, that's like putting the screen BEFORE the open window... Proper order for max filtration would be:
1-Open window
2-Screen
3-Finer screen
4-Even Finer screen.

Are you saying the proper order would be:
1-Even Finer Screen
2-Finer Screen
3-Screen
4-Open Window ??

Let me state this again, maybe I was unclear:
Stage 0 - Municipal Water input
Stage 1 - Prefilter (Compressed floss)
Stage 2 - Granular Activated Carbon (5 Micron)
Stage 3 - Granular Activated Carbon (1 Micron)
Stage 4 - RO
Stage 5 - DI
Stage 6 - Final Carbon for taste
Stage 7 - Filtered water output

Yes, Stage 6 doesn't really benefit the tanks at all but my RO/DI is hooked up to a faucet upstairs and it's hooked up to the ice maker too so in my case, it is desired. :P :confused:

re: Guarantee - C'mon AJ, of course he doesn't guarantee the FILTERS. He guarantees the unit itself. Yeah, gimmicky, but threads DO wear out and it IS plastic afterall. Things can break.

Here's a diagram:
http://www.aquasafecanada.com/5%20stage%20ro%20system.htm

The labels he has on the site are not as accurate as on the documentation he sends with the unit itself.
First Stage Filter is described as:
5-Micron pre-filter for removing dirt, sand, hair rust, etc.
Second stage filter is described as:
Granular Activated carbon filter for chemicals especially chlorine
Third Stage filter is described as:
1-Micron granular activated carbon filter fro chemicals.

The RO comes only AFTER the floss and two stages of carbon so I do believe this system complies with your requirements.

Are we good, man?

[Mckitrick]

I just want to mention at this stage for those of you following this thread.....

AJ and I are NOT arguing. I've yapped with him on the phone and he's a super cool dude. There ain't no animosity between us.. Well, except for the time I took those incriminating pictures of him but he made me promise not to tell anyone... OOPS. :sorry:

[ajx22]

Paul,

The biggest point that I was making is that in order for the system to work as designed - the Prefilter (sediment stage) should be the finest - say 1-micron - then the carbon stage should be larger - say 2-or-5-micron - then if you were to have an additional carbon stage...it really wouldn't matter what size it is as the primary 1-micron sediment stages SHOULD have removed any particulate matter that existed. Again...the carbon block filters are only meant to remove the chemicals - especially chlorine.

Now - we come to the real problem - Chloramine. This is what nearly all municipal water supply companies are now using. Chloramine is preferred to only Chlorine as it will not disipate from the water without specific filtration - as Chlorine will disipate from water on it's own. If we only had Chlorine in our water - then allowing a vat of circulating water to aerate overnight would allow for a large portion of the Chlorine present to disipate.

Unfortunately, a standard 10" carbon filter does not have enough contact time to remove Chloramine. I have switched my 10" prefilter stages to 20" - to allow for more contact time with the carbon. In theory - your x2 10" stages of carbon should be doing the same thing.

In respect to the analogy - your

1-Even Finer Screen
2-Finer Screen
3-Screen
4-Open Window ??
would be correct for RO

Re the Guarantee - I just wanted to make sure. You would be surprised what I have seen/heard of companies stating. I know of one water filtration company (a large National company) that told customers who bought their RO unit for aquarium use - that the filters would only need to be replaced ONCE per year at the earliest. While this is a "little" bit off the real schedule - the fact that they resided in an OLD area of Toronto that has HUGE amounts of rust in their pipes made matters worse. In fact - their unit STOPPED working after about 45-days due to the 5-micron sediment & 10-micron carbon stages being COMPLETELY clogged!!! While I too offered a warranty with my filters - in all honesty - it's not a realistic selling point to make.

I am in no way saying that your filter is not working - I only want to make others who are not knowageable about RO & RO/DI aware of what is really important - and what isn't. Again...the primary point is that the prefilter stages SHOULD start off with the smallest micron rating in the sediment.


Originally posted by Paul_BB_Guy
I just want to mention at this stage for those of you following this thread.....

AJ and I are NOT arguing. I've yapped with him on the phone and he's a super cool dude. There ain't no animosity between us.. Well, except for the time I took those incriminating pictures of him but he made me promise not to tell anyone... OOPS. :sorry:

---Ditto! ***and I won't tell the folks here about your little secret either Paul! ;)

Cheers all....

[Mckitrick]

I still disagree. I don't see the logic in having a finer filter come before a less-fine filter. By doing that, you simply clog up the first stage because it's so fine!
i.e. a 5 Micron before a 10 Micron doesn't make sense to me!
The 5 Micron filter won't let anything bigger than 5 Microns through so putting that before a 10 Micron is pointless (in my opinion).

See Here:
http://www.airwaterice.com/Filter%20array.htm

I'll let this go if you can point me to information that gives a real reason why going finest before finer is better... Get your environmental engineer in here. Let's talk to him...

It just doesn't compute man.. :dance:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=238304

[Red-Sea]

Paul, I disagree with you on this matter. The rule is first Sidment 1 Micron, then Carbon 1 Micron, third Carbon 5 Micron then TFC Membrance plus if you wish you can add DI Filter for last stage.
I use this system for 3 years without having any problems with my water quality or sacrificing my Membrance to exhaust early, after 3 years of use my TDS readings are still 8PPM, I don't know about the company that you supply the link of what kind of information they giving people about having 10 Micron Sidment & 5 Micron Carbon block, by using any of this rating filters I guaranty you that your Membrance will give up in less than a year, companies like that are usually there for a short period of time they make a quick sale then try to convince people thet the water coming to their house is high in nutrient & then can't do anything about it, maybe you should borrow a TDS meter & check the quality of water your getting from your Ro/Di system, I'm sure it will dissapoint you, here is a list of companies that been in buisness for over 15 years & still keeping strong & building costomer relations because when they sell a product they warranty the performance & part used, therefor they dont tell you the unit you just bought has 5 year warranty but we recomend you to toss it out & replace it with a new one, that's bull****
See the links below and you'll know why most successful & reputable companies use filters of 1 Micron for Sidment & 5< Micron for Carbon.
http://www.aquariumwaterfilters.com/RODI/Barracuda.html
http://www.kentmarine.com/html/max50.html
http://www.aquaticreefsystems.com/3_Stage_Reverse_Osmosis.htm
http://www.spectrapure.com/St_line_p4.htm

[Mckitrick]

Red-Sea,

Aside from the aquariumwaterfilters link, the other three are not explicit in the order in which the filters are placed. Remember, in my setup, by the time the water hits the membrane it's gone through a 1 micron carbon filter...

Nobody on Reefcentral has disagreed with my methodology.

You guarantee my membrane will fail in a year? I've had it for 7 months so far and have passed a minimum of 400 Gallons through it. I've made one complete filter change and my TDS readings are still consistently 6.

I'll take your warranty to the bank my friend. If my membrane fails in the next five months, I'll buy you case of beer. If it doesn't..... I like Corona.

[ajx22]

2 points to make here:

1.) The owner of the aquariumwaterfilter link is Marianne Brizio - she, I can assure you, is an expert in water filtration considering that she is an Environmental Engineer - who is consulted on by Municipal Water supply companies all over the Southern US. The company now called Aquatic Reef Systems - is owned by people that used to work for AquaFX and who were trained directly by Marianne Brizio - @ AquaFX. Spectrapure is no different then say Hagen - Big-Box company - no guaranteed expert knowledge. Same holds true for Kent - Big-Box company. Saying that...they are all using the researched and proper combination. Should you want an expert explanation - send an e-mail to Marianne Brizio @ info@aquariumwaterfilters.com Should yo want the opinion to be posted on Reef Central - post a question to Bryan Crenshaw or The Gang at ARS in the Sponsor forums - Aquatic Reef Systems - I can assure you that they too will agree.

2.) The main reason for this is that you have the filters do the job they are designed to do. A 1-micron sediment/floss filter is the cheapest filter in the system. ALL it is designed to do is catch suspended particulate such as dirt/rust/etc. Should this filter clog - it's the cheapest one and is the least expense. The next stage is the ??-micron carbon (or 2 carbons) - this is the next cheapest filter(s) in the system - but it isn't meant to catch particulate matter. It is designed to remove chemicals. If you uselessly clog this filter with particulate matter, you not only have wasted it's true filtering abilities - you have wasted money too.

You can place the filters in whatever order you choose - but the experts have worked out a system for a reason. Should you choose not to follow the experts advice - that is fine - but do know that your method is not the proper - most cost-effective way.

Cheers,

[Mckitrick]

Item 2) I want to know the exact reason the experts have chosen to go 1 Micron Carbon Prior to 5 Micron carbon.

AJ - I emailed Marianne and posted in the forum you mentioned

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=238636

[Red-Sea]

Paul, I don't mean to bash on you but check the links again, Aquatic reef systems they clearly specify they use 1 Micron Sidment & 1 Micron Carbon same goes to Spectrapure they even use 1/2 Micron Sidment/Carbon filters on their high end systems...

Now let's do some calculations, you said that your filter is 7 monts old and after using just over 400G of filtered water your TDS is at 6PPM. now let's calculate mine, 150G plus 40G sump =190G that evaporates 5gallon a day plus my 20G tank that evaporates 5gallon a week, that's 35+5=40G a week x4=160G x12 months=1920Gallons per year that's just for my tanks plus we use RO water for drinking & cooking every day with aprox. 1500Gallons a year =3400Gallons of water used every year in my house for the past 3 years with same Memrance and still reading 8PPM with Sidement & Carbon filters changed every 3-4 months plus flush the system once a week, I would like to see a system with 5 or 10 Micron Sidement go thru 10000 gallons of water & still have that quality of water.

Again Paul, I dont mean to say your filter system is bad just that your using wrong micron filters and maybe a low quality as well, since the diference between 10>5>1 micron filters are only a buck I don't think it's worth to sacrify your Membrance for it.

:cheers:

[Mckitrick]

Red-Sea - No disprespect but please read my posts carefully before quoting me.

My Sediment prefilter is 5 Micron not 10.
10 Microns was mentioned to illustrate a point
"i.e. a 5 Micron before a 10 Micron doesn't make sense to me!"

I said a minimum of 400 Gallons not just over 400 Gallons.

You mentioned 210 Gallons total (150+40+20) evaporating five gallons a week. I've got three 65 Gallon tanks so my evaporation rate would be similar (195 Total). RO water is also used for cooking and drinking in my household but i'm confident we use less "household" water than you do (i'm pretty sure you've got kidlets running about) ;)

Let me clarify what my system is:
Stage 1 - 5 Micron Sediment (Floss-type stuff)
Stage 2 - 5 Micron Carbon
Stage 3 - 1 Micron Carbon
Stage 4 - Reverse Osmosis
Stage 5 - DeIonization
Stage 6 - Final Carbon (for taste, no reef benefit)

Now, if I may quote you:
"I guaranty you that your Membrance will give up in less than a year"

Can I hold you to that Guarantee? What will you forfeit if your statement doesn't hold true? :cheers:

If I may quote once more:
"maybe you should borrow a TDS meter & check the quality of water your getting from your Ro/Di system, I'm sure it will dissapoint you"

My TDS meter reads 6ppm. I'm not disappointed.

[ajx22]

Originally posted by Paul_BB_Guy
Item 2) I want to know the exact reason the experts have chosen to go 1 Micron Carbon Prior to 5 Micron carbon.

The reason is to protect the filters, and allow them to do the job they are designed to do.

Technically - if you were running more then one sediment filter - then you could indeed do it your way.

For example:
Stage 1 = 5-micron Sediment
Stage 2 = 1-micron Sediment
Stage 3 = ??-micron carbon
etc...

In this set-up, your theory would be correct. BUT - in only using a single sediment prefilter - then you would want it to be the smallest micron rating to protect the rest of the filters in the loop.

Again...the reason is the same in all my posts:

You use the cheap sediment prefilter to protect the more expensive filters in your system, and allow them to do the jobs that they were designed to do.

Please look at:
http://www.aquariumpros.ca/rodi_info.html

for an explanation of what each stage in your system is designed to do.

You can also tell by color when a sediment filter is getting clogged - where as you do not have the same benefit with a carbon.

If your source water is 100% free from particulate - then using a sediment prefilter is useless, and your carbon would be all that was needed. Though I know of no unfiltered water supply that would be able to make that claim.

[Mugster]

Let me see if I understand all of this. There's been so much bantering back and forth it was hard to follow this thread...lol.

Is this what you are recommending AJ?

5 micron sediment (optional)
1 micron sediment
5 micron carbon
1 micron carbon
RO
DI

This is my take on all of this. The 5m sediment removes the larger particulate matter and will clog the fastest and is the cheapest to replace. The 1m sediment will remove the finer particulate matter missed by the 5m sediment preventing it from entering the carbon(s) and clogging them up which are more expensive to replace. To allow more contact time between the carbon and the water use two carbons. Although these are for removing chemicals they also act as additional protection for the membrane which is the most expensive to replace. The 5m carbon removes chemicals and any large particulate matter that slipped past the sediments. The 1m carbon allows additional contact time and stops any remaining sediment missed from reaching the membrane.

Paul, change your 5 micron sediment to a 1 micron. Then as AJ stated, you can place your carbons in whatever order you like as long as there's a 1 micron sediment filter before the membrane. Correct me if I'm wrong AJ.

HTH,
Kev

[ajx22]

Due to slanderous information - this thread has been closed.

Defamatory remarks posted by ANYONE - is NOT permitted - PERIOD!!

Out of respect for this forum rule...I will NOT post the reason behind my decision.