Snails and hermits all dead

[greatg]

110 gal Tank parameters: salinity: 30ppt
Specific gravity 1.022
pH 8.4
ammonia 0ppm
nitrate 0 ppm
nitrite 0 ppm
Temp 78

I introduced a bunch of snails and hermit crabs 3 days ago and non survived. I acclimated slowly....NEED help?

[Daniel Schubert]

Do you have any other inverts in your tank, if not then maybe you have some copper in there. You may want to check for that

[powder blue 2]

Just curious.....
how long has the tank been set up?
how did you aclimate the snails?
did ANY of them live?

Tim
:cool:

[greatg]

Tank has been cycling for 5 weeks. I took a water sample in for testing, results:

pH - 8.2
Ammonia - 0.25
nitrite - 0.05
phosphate - 0.25

So, the ammonia is high! Would this be killing the inverts? How can I reduce the ammonia levels...?

[bertcmg]

try adding some Amonia neutralizer from Seachem and some Biospyra ( Not any other brand They dont work )



In one day you will see all levels going down in three you will be able to add fish



Also your PH seems to be fluctuating try using sea buffer which sets it to 8.3 also Crushed coral substrate would be benificial in maintaing PH

Your Ammonia levels may be zero in a empty tank but when you add some living things that is when you really know

Also do water changes at about 3.5 gallons for 5 days straight using a drip ( It would be advisable to make a new batch of water in large quantities i.e. 75 gallon non toxic barrel

Hope this helps I did this on a one week old aquarium and all my fish are fine

this includes 1 damsel 1 cleaner wrasse and 1 red linkia as well as some snails and janitors


Bert

[greatg]

Thanks, I have a yellow tang in the tank. is it safe to use the neutralizer?

[bertcmg]

Depends on what you mean by neutralizer ?

If you mean the ammonia neutralizer then yes

also you may want to take note that Ammonia neutralizer does not get rid of Ammonia its just make it less or non toxic

Your biological filtration still has to convert it into nitrites and then nitrates therefore your tests will sill show ammonia levels

while you will not feel the toxic effects of Ammonia due to neutralizer you will still see a nitrite spike therefore water changes of about 20% over a week for two weeks is recommended

It is important that you do these water changes and its better if you can do a slow drip while maintaing a near exact water conditions ( PG Salinity ect )

I would also recommend that use biospira its just magic

Bert

[jastonataquapro]

read articles out there before you go doing frequent water changes. I don't think they're the miracle cure a lot of people use them to be. Course I am fairly new to the hobby myself.

[afss]

When dealing with the initial cycle of the tank all doing water changes does is dilute the amonia etc. By doing this you may save critters in the tank ( that shouldn't be there till the tank is properly cycled) but it may prolong the time it takes for the cycle.

Any of the reef same amonia neutralizers work. As for the biosprya i am not sure what it is, but if it is just a bio filter kick starter then most of the sw/reef safe ones will work just as well too.

[bertcmg]

Correct, I am suggesting water changes as a method for quick if not instant addition of animals

I spoke to a a guy I ran into at a local LFS he happened to own a business setting up and maintaining tanks

I told him of how I had added fish before cycling and he told me to do the following

Add biospyra It is the only commercial bacteria that actually works Cycle and other botteled products have come under question as to if they actually contain any bacteria that convert Ammonia and nirite

I measured my ammonia levels and they were at about 4 PPM

I have done no water changes since I added Biospyra

I added biospra and about 30 hours later I found no traces of Ammonia or Nitrites


Its been that way for two weeks


BTW I did not loose any fish or inverts

I have a Blue Damsel and a cleaner wrasse and a Redlinkia

Just added some chromis

Tomorrow I will add a clown and a anemone

[afss]

Bert. I am glad things have worked for you, suprised, but glad. However i would really suggest slowing down a bit in the additions. Eventually things could catch up to you. I would strongly suggest staying away from anemones for a while yet.

Scott

[greatg]

Bert,

Where did you get the Bio-Spira? I called Marineland and they informed me that the product is not sold in Canada?

[kentracey]

WOW!!! Slow it down guys, what's the hurry. I would only introduce one new fish per month max.

[afss]

One new fish per month may be a bit on the slow side, but one or two after a month and then one or 2 at a time after the tank has had a chance to adapt to the bio load. Remember this is a hobby of patience. Best you learn it early, you might get away with stuff for a while, but if you rush it is likely to catch up to you eventually.

[Michael_Lambert]

bert your tank has bee running for how long now?

and wondering what size tank and lights you are running..?


Tomorrow I will add a clown and a anemone This is really really not a good idea.. and im sure no one here would suggest this to you .. this soon!

[bertcmg]

55 G soon to be 180 G

2x250w MH plus acitinic

40 Lbs of LR plus 15 lbs of Baserock
CC as substrate

Seaclone 150 Skimmer

No sump yet but will arrive with new setup next week

I am wondering why noone suggested ammo neuralizer to me ?

I had TIM tell me something about how I had a dead duck instead of starfish " you dont have a Starfish you have a dead duck "was his expert opinion

I heard everything but " your tank will catch on fire "

but I dont remember anything about ammonia neutralizer or instant cyclers like biospira being suggested


And here I am having not lost one fish ( And no its not too soon to tell )



I did an experiment I added some CC and ceramic tubes (both new )into to a bucket

I then added pure ammonia to it so the readings were between 4-6 ppm

Added biospira

Today roughly 24 hrs later I have 2 ppm AMMO and 0 nitrites ( I dont know where the ammonia that turned into nitrites went )
My guess is that it turned into nitrate

I am sure by tomorrow I will have a reading of 0 ammo and mybe 2 ppm nitrite

and day after 0/0

I will add a molly as soon as I get 00-/00 reading to see if the reading are indeed what they are

from reading about others experince I am heading to the conclusion that if you use this product you can instantly add fish
( The guy who installs and maintains aquariums does exactly that )


I am so confident that I am betting a fair amount of humilition if I am wrong

Cheers

Bert





I

[Sohal Tang]

bertcmg.....hey...you asked!!! I only answered with my opinion....


now....understand that I do not wish anything but success to you and any fellow reefer....

having said that...I am sure you have heard that sometimes when animals are caught with cyanide they can arrive in
good condition only to ROT AWAY within a month or so from
the cyanide used to CATCH THEM.... In the meantime they look
healthy and really are healthy but the results of what took place
back in time begin to catch up....

I am not saying that your linkia will still kick off..and I hope it does
not...I hope it lives...but....in my opinion..YES it is STILL too early
to tell....

But..hey..opinions vary.
IN any case VERY BEST OF LUCK
Tim

[afss]

Tim.. i can't believe i am saying this:D for once i agree with you:D
That starfish is likely a gonner. I hope its not, i wish you all the luck, but IMO it probably will not survive. The cleaner wrasse also.

It is too soon to tell Bert. You have how much experience? we as a board have collectively how much? If you don't want our opinions then don't ask.

The reason no one mentioned the instant cyclers or ammonia reducers is probably because it is best to let the cycle play out its natural path. Messing around with it now can lead to troubles later or extended cycles (notice i said can, not will). Also because ammo neutralizers will work sometimes, not others. People were concerned for the critters that are supposed to be in your care and were wanting what was likely best for them from experience.

You may get lucky and everything may live, i hope you do and i hope it does! Just because you got lucky doesn't mean you should be advocating your methods till the tank is atleast old enough , 3 or 4 weeks isn't proof, to prove that your method worked.

I myself like the skimerless methods, but i realize that skimmers do work. I advocate skimmerless to those that want to keep an apropriate bio load cause i have had the tank set up for 3 years now. That is proof, 3 or 4 weeks is not.

Again i wish you best of luck, but please, if you are going to ask for opinions on things you are doing then be ready for opinions that you don't like. Be ready for them and accept them as opinions and do what you want with them, but don't get pissed off because someone answered you and you don't like the answer.

Scott

[bertcmg]

Scott I realized that I was going to ruffle a few feathers I do appreciate your advise, I still must say that I do advocate adding fish early if you can maintain your aquarium within good parameters, I have demonstrated to myself and really do believe that instant cycling is possible now with these new products

My grandmother does not use a esclator does that change the fact that it is a good method of changing floors in malls ?

I just want to make sure that people like me who were starting off don't think that these things are not possible because they are

as for my lifestock I have a friend here who helped me with the set-up and he gurantees me that these fish will not only survive but flourish or he will replace me all these fish for no charge.

I think I can listen to someone who's tended Batfish for years

Its not the first tank he sets up and he sets up atleast 1 Major tank a week

I can provide anyone in montreal his number so you can use his services

He is quite reasonably priced and gets good used equipment / aquarium deals

I doubt all of us combined here have set up and maintained as many tanks as this guy has ]

Bert

[afss]

Escalators have been around for a bit longer than you have had your tank set up. you may think your tank is proven, that doesn't mean it is.

Sure you can start up a tank and load it to the gills right away. You may get lucky, you may have everything live. Maybe even with the help of an experienced friend you might make it thru with out luck. The average person setting up a tank would likely be better off to take their time and follow the ways that are proven.

One tank, one time that is 3 or 4 weeks old is not proof.

The fact the guy says he will replace live stock isn't the point. The point is that the idea is to not lose live stock.

I highly doubt this guy has as much experience as all of the members of the board. Figure out how many members, and how many years and tanks each member has had.

If you want to follow this guys advise that is ok, its your tank, your money, and your responsability to ensure adaquate care for the critters you chose to care for.

Scott

[Sohal Tang]

Hey Scotty..chaulk one up for FITZY!!! hehehe

Bert....I for once agree with Scott !! hahahahaha

If you are going to ask for HELP and OPINIONS of your
situation then it really not a good idea to be disappointed
with people's advice...

I ask for LOTS OF ADVICE from LOTS of people and I KNOW
that in the long run or when the smoke clears there is
only a PORTION of that advice that I will end up using....

I do not turn around to the others and say YOUR ARE
WRONG na na na na na....

I simply THANK THEM FOR THEIR INPUT...

You see..its like this really..YOU ASK..you LISTEN, you TAKE WHAT YOU LIKE AND LEAVE THE REST...thats it...simple...

DOes that make sense?
Tim

[bertcmg]

Tim I do agree with Scott on me being receptive towards other peoples opinions

How ever I was not referring to Scott or mitchell or tooloud in this case

All of these gentlemen have been very helpful to say the least

Now speaking of you. Can you tell me what part of these messages from you constitutes help because I am having a hard time finding it amongst really lame attempts at being funny

here are some exerpts

" you'll need Robin's help soon! quote:

Bert....with your BATMAN icon..hehehehe

Listen bud...you will be CALLING FOR ROBIN'S HELP SOON!
To the bat phone!!! hehehehe "

That was helarious you must be a professional comedian

Another yet

"YOUR GOING THE WRONGGGG WAYYYYYYYY" hehehe

Are you reading this Bert?

THE BATPHONE IS RINGING...IT WILL BE BLINKING SOON
BERT...Get ROBIN READY...trouble will start soon....
you just rolled the dice and it aint a 7 or 11 comingup bud..."

I now see the great advise that I missed thanks Timmy

Please feel free to not reply to my posts your lame attemps at being funny will not be missed

As for everyone else especially Mitchell and Scott, and Bill I really do appreciate your input I was just curious as to why the board had almost a defeatest attitude,

I understand now that it comes from our difference in opinion about quick cycling thats all.

It most certainly does not mean any disrespect. And I hope is not taken that way

Bert

[Sohal Tang]

I am sorry that my humour was not up to your standards...
It was only done to make you laugh and hopefully cheer you up...
Sorry,
Goodbye
Tim

[afss]

Originally posted by bertcmg

As for everyone else especially Mitchell and Scott, and Bill I really do appreciate your input I was just curious as to why the board had almost a defeatest attitude,


Its not so much the difference in oppinion that brings out the defeatest attitude, its the "been there, done that" that brings out the defeatest attitude;) Does the stuff work as a quick fix, absolutely. But from experience it can be a huge PITA and lead to other problems.


Most of us have probably tried the amo lock, or the cylcle or the bio spria. I know i did when i started. I didn't know about all of these great forums and had the excelent guidance of a ****ty lfs. They said you need this i said "should i buy the bigger bottle?":P Figured out that lfs sucked and moved on to another ****ty one and they said sure you can add an anemone after 4 weeks and i said "can i add 2?":P and they said sure. I lost fish and live stock left, right and center as well as wasted loads money on needless equipemnt and concoctions at the hands of bad advice.

BTW its difference in opinion that causes the the debate :D

[bertcmg]

As you said before time will tell , I really hope I am right so I can get my reefing guru wings :wink-grin

[afss]

if i remember right that would be 37 more posts.

Scott

[bertcmg]

36 with this one