Zoa eating nudibranch identified

[kkonowalchuk]

I was just watching my cute little browny green zoanthid, and noticed a little tiny thing hanging on it like Sylvester Stallone in Cliffhanger... after about 20 seconds of watching, it seemed to start slithering toward the center of the zoo like the slug things in Wrath of Khan. Ok, so I watch alot of movies.

This thingy looks like a young Nudibranch, but I am not sure. Is it a keeper or a tosser?

Thanks!

[ajx22]

I was just watching my cute little browny green zoanthid, and noticed a little tiny thing hanging on it like Sylvester Stallone in Cliffhanger... after about 20 seconds of watching, it seemed to start slithering toward the center of the zoo like the slug things in Wrath of Khan. Ok, so I watch alot of movies.

This thingy looks like a young Nudibranch, but I am not sure. Is it a keeper or a tosser?

Thanks!
More then likely - it's a coral predator.

Very few Nudi's can be kept alive in captive systems - as almost all of them are obligate feeders (only eat one thing - be that Aiptasia, Montipora, Zoas, etc.).

This is another reason to either dip and or quarantine prior to adding to your display tank.

I would pull it - at least until you can get a 100% ID on it:

http://www.seaslugforum.net/

(have fun - there are only like a billion kinds...lol)

[kkonowalchuk]

Thanks for the quick response - I'm gonna suck him out with a turkey baster and drop him down a drain somewhere... he looks kinda neat, but in my experience - if it looks neat - it's bad. :)

[kkonowalchuk]

I sucked him out and into a little container for better pics... He's neat!

[ajx22]

Do be sure to check under the rims of the polyps of the rest of the zoa's in the tank - as if there's one - there could be more.

HTH,

[kkonowalchuk]

Already checking. :) Thanks again

[Dene]

This is definitely a nudibranch, but doesn't look like the zoanthid eating species.

However, I would keep an eye on your corals especially the softies as this fellow falls in the family of Aeolidiidae.

There is alot unknown about nudibranches however we do know that they are specific in their diets.

Keep an eye out for egg strings, they will be small circular strings of white eggs. A good place to start would be by examining the sides of polyps (starting with the colony you found the nudibranch on).

[RonPeter]

Is it possible to remove your corals and dip them now?

[Dene]

A couple of things to consider; this family of nudibranches require two to mate and fertilize eggs, so if no others can be found you won't have egg strings. OR, in the absence of egg strings chances are good that there was only one. (Nudibranches can smell and find one another to mate). However, if there are more than one then you will definitely have egg strings and more nudibranchs. Dipping may be a good idea.

[kkonowalchuk]

Happily, I didn't find a second (or third) nudibranch. UNhappily, I found an Aiptasia poking out the underside of the Zoa's rock. I took care of him with a pair of pliers. Too bad I flushed the nudibranch already, I could have gotten him to eat the aiptasia first!

As for the nudi not looking like one that eats Zoas... After pulling it off, the Zoa's tentacles were curled up and blackish. Even if it wasn't getting eaten, it wasn't happy!

I'm going to dip it right now, while it's dark... Don't know if it makes any difference, but we'll see :)

Thanks folks!

[ajx22]

You might just have spread the Aiptasia rather then killing it...

:(

Do some reading on killing Aiptasia...squishing them only makes more of them...

[kkonowalchuk]

I didn't just squish the Aiptasia - I broke off the rock around it... I'll be watching that area for regrowth and will hit it with vinegar if I need to and then Joe's Juice if THAT doesn't work...

[Dene]

That nudibranch was not a Berghia so it would not have eaten the aiptasia, so plucking it asap was the right thing to do. You have definitely spread the aiptasia; cell tissue of aiptasia regenerate into more aiptasia in a month or so you will have more aiptasia. Take AJ's advice on searching the forum in dealing with aiptasia.

[kkonowalchuk]

Damn... I suck at this!! There's so many things to learn about salt water tanks. Good thing for this forum...

How much of the Aiptasia's tissue would have been inside the rock? I pulled off about 1/4" of rock with the little guy in the middle of it - outside of the water.

Even if I DID manage to spread the Aiptasia, which I don't doubt may have happened, would the dip not have taken care of it in the end? I guess only time will tell.

I'd like to get a couple peppermint shrimps in there, but I read that in the absence of Aiptasia, they will pick at my Zoas and Stars... Is this valid?

[kkonowalchuk]

Doing more research on Aiptasia, I am 80% sure that that's not what I yanked out... The reason I thought it was that was a posting I had previously in the "Please identify me..." section had pointed my hitchhiker toward Aiptasia. However, reading on other threads there, I found someone with the identical critter which was identified as a cup coral.

It had clear tentacles with little white tips and retracted into a tube when frightened.

This one was quite a bit bigger and bolder than the ones I had previously, but I'm pretty sure it was the same thing... At least I hope it was.

Good news is - after a fresh water dip, my Zoa seems happy. I didn't see any "bad" things fall into my bucket, so I think I'm good to go. I'll know more in the morning when the lights all come on.

More good news - while peaking around with a flashlight, I was startled by a little "bug" that scurried through the Zoa and hid somewhere in the rock behind it. I'm thinking it was an Amphipod, which I am happy to see (I think?) :) I'm hoping to see alot more of them to keep my future Wrasse happy.

[Patwa]

This is definitely a nudibranch, but doesn't look like the zoanthid eating species.

actually, i do believe it is a zoa eating nudi....it's identical to the zoa eating nudis i've dealt with before...it's also very similar to zoa eating nudis as ID'd on Zoaid:

Zoa eating nudis....macro shots
http://www.zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=628

Nudi eggs
http://www.zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=1413

i can't stress enough...examine ALL your zoas and see if you can find the eggs.....a FW dip will not work....you have to use your fingernail or some other small scraping tool to get it off.

heck, i've seen zoa eating nudi on my glass, on the sand....they move fairly fast....it's like they know i'm coming to kill 'em!

Nudis are a piece of cake to deal with (FW dip)....it's the eggs that are the problem.

g'luck!

Zach

[ajx22]

actually, i do believe it is a zoa eating nudi....it's identical to the zoa eating nudis i've dealt with before...it's also very similar to zoa eating nudis as ID'd on Zoaid:

Zoa eating nudis....macro shots
http://www.zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=628

Nudi eggs
http://www.zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=1413




Nice ID!! :bravo::bravo:

:thanks:

[kkonowalchuk]

Yes, awesome ID. Thanks Zach! :)

I'll take another *reeeeaaaal* close look at my Zoa for egg sacks. i'd rather not have an infestation of them, that's for sure!

Fortunately, I only have one small Zoa colony of about 15-20 - umm - heads? :) So examining them will not take long...

Here's a question that I could not find an answer for regarding the anatomy of a Zoa colony... Is that 1 body with lots of mouths, or lots of bodies with 1 mouth each?

[Patwa]

Here's a question that I could not find an answer for regarding the anatomy of a Zoa colony... Is that 1 body with lots of mouths, or lots of bodies with 1 mouth each?

good question....AFAIK, the body you are referring to is just simple connective tissue.....the actual polyps are the 'bodies', as they each have their own digestive system and zooxanthellae .....in fact, if you sever a polyp from the connective tissue, it will survive just fine (given optimal conditions, of course!)

HTH

Zach

[vaporize]

Here's a question that I could not find an answer for regarding the anatomy of a Zoa colony... Is that 1 body with lots of mouths, or lots of bodies with 1 mouth each?

Funny that I just found one of my polyp has 2 mouth too :)

[ajx22]

Zoa's are "Colonial Anemones" - ie. each one is a completely separate individual; living in a colony with others.

[vaporize]

Zoa's are "Colonial Anemones" - ie. each one is a completely separate individual; living in a colony with others.

thank God, they don't walk LOL

[ajx22]

thank God, they don't walk LOL

lol -

This is part of what makes them Zoa's :

:read: :eek1: :crosseyed :confused1

A member of the phylum Cnidaria, zoanthid coral is a colonial anemone closely related to single anemones. Zoanthid coral, including members from the species Palythoa and Zoanthus, have some characteristics we associate with plants and some with animals. They grow in the ocean as a group, permanently attach to reefs, feed like anemones, and propagate like coral.

Cnidarians are radially symmetric, which means they are shaped like a series of cylinders that could be rotated without being able to determine which side is the "front." Zoanthid coral grows in a colony, which means a bottom mat connects many tubules. Each tubule, called a stolon, resembles a single anemone. A top section has a ring of short tentacles surrounding its central mouth. This top is held up by an elongated column of tissue like the stalk of a mushroom, and this in turn connects to the collective mat.

Colonies can be made up of dozens of such stolons, each 1 - 1.5 inches (2.5 - 3.8 cm), to form carpets on or around reefs. Zoanthid coral prefer to grown on pieces of broken off coral that collect in valleys on tidepools or the ocean floor, but they can also survive on sand and rocks. Zoanthid coral grows in seemingly disparate ways. Some stolons are male and female, and release sperm and eggs to get fertilized and grow into a whole new colony. However, an existing colony can also propagate by branching off new polyps, like coral, that start from the carpet and grow upwards.

Zoanthid coral, since it can't perambulate (move around), feeds off nutrients that drift through the current, called detritus. Detritus are miniature pieces of food other creatures don't even notice, like bits of algae, plankton, or waste. Other nutrients are extracted from photosynthetic algae that live on zoanthid coral, called zooxanthellae. However, zoanthid coral are also equipped with poisonous toxins that can sting other creatures from the tips of their tentacles. This is solely for protection, not to paralyze animals for food.


Medical researchers are interested in zoanthid coral because it has symbiotic relationships with animals and plants, like algae and crabs, yet maintain production of toxic chemicals. Although the toxins are poisonous to the nervous system, they might be able to benefit humans against disease.
WiseGeek (http://www.wisegeek.com/)

[kkonowalchuk]

Cool! :) Now I know everything I need to know about them. I was just curious because there's a couple Zoa's in there who don't always get shrimp as they float by (or when I spray with a turkey baster) and was curious if the shrimp all went to the same place in the end or not.

These Zoa's seem happy in their new home anyways.. They were nearly pure brown when I got them, and now there's a real nice green spreading from the inside out, and from the ends of the tentacles. Looks real neat with just actinic lights on - not as neat as some I've seen in galleries, but it's my first colony. I'll be looking for a much nicer one next time! :)

[Dene]

This is definitely a nudibranch, but doesn't look like the zoanthid eating species.

actually, i do believe it is a zoa eating nudi....it's identical to the zoa eating nudis i've dealt with before...it's also very similar to zoa eating nudis as ID'd on Zoaid:

Zoa eating nudis....macro shots
http://www.zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=628

Nudi eggs
http://www.zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=1413

i can't stress enough...examine ALL your zoas and see if you can find the eggs.....a FW dip will not work....you have to use your fingernail or some other small scraping tool to get it off.

heck, i've seen zoa eating nudi on my glass, on the sand....they move fairly fast....it's like they know i'm coming to kill 'em!

Nudis are a piece of cake to deal with (FW dip)....it's the eggs that are the problem.

g'luck!

Zach

Good call Patwa !!!

[Dene]

Here's a question that I could not find an answer for regarding the anatomy of a Zoa colony... Is that 1 body with lots of mouths, or lots of bodies with 1 mouth each?

good question....AFAIK, the body you are referring to is just simple connective tissue.....the actual polyps are the 'bodies', as they each have their own digestive system and zooxanthellae .....in fact, if you sever a polyp from the connective tissue, it will survive just fine (given optimal conditions, of course!)

HTH

Zach

...the connective tissue is called the coenenchyme.

[andrew__]

I had (and pulled) what looks like exactly the same species of nudibranch. Here are a few more pictures of mine:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v37/evilmonkey/Slug_ID_01.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v37/evilmonkey/Slug_ID_02.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v37/evilmonkey/Slug_ID_04.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v37/evilmonkey/Slug_ID_07.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v37/evilmonkey/Slug_ID_08.jpg

[Hhutch]

Great thread - I've pulled 3 of these little "explitively-deleteds" out of my tank in the last 24 hours. I'm sure I'll find more. I'm guessing these are also what's harassing my yellow polyps.

I find this hobby to be tragic at times. In this specific case, it's tragic that these parasitic hitchhikers are also of the more interesting and attractive inverts around.