Cheap SW Setup

[Shan_McG]

:wave: Hey Everyone. This is my first post on this forum. I'm glad to find some fellow Canadians who are also addicted to aquaria like me! Okay so here's my question.

I'm running a 20G FW system now, you know the ol' Hagen starter kit that comes with the Aqua-Clear 200. I would eventually like have a SW system but only have room for one aquarium in my apartment. I've done a lot of reading a research into setting up and maintaining a SW system and I've noticed one conflicting opinion. Most books say A SW system can't be maintained under 30G. However my LFS guy says he successfully runs a 20G Eclipse reef with no problems. Ideally it would be better for me, financially, to use the existing equipment/tank I have now and add a few of the absolutely necessary pieces of equipment later (more lighting etc) plus live rock, sand etc. I'd love to get a 55g system up and running but at this point its not fesiable. So what is your opinion? Is a 20G SW setup possible or am I asking for trouble? If you were going to run a 20g what would the most important upgrades be that would help stabilize the water conditions?

Sorry if this question has been asked a million times already

Thanks!
Shannon

[afss]

First let me say that it is possible... and probably not all that difficult.

The thing with SW and i suppose with FW to a degree, is that smaller volumes of water are more prone to parameter swings.. PH, salinity, amonia etc etc etc

I think that if you set up a smaller tank and have a realistic idea of what you can and can't do with it then you will be OK.

First question is do you want to have a fish only tank? or are you wanting a reef?

Scott

[Shan_McG]

Ideally I would like to try reef but probably further down the road and not right away. Maybe in a year or twos time.

[afss]

Well IMO if you are thinking about going reef, you might as well start that way now.

I would suggest (only because it has worked well for me) seting up a DSB (Deep Sand Bed). This is typically supposed to be btw 4-6 inches in depth. Mine is 3-4 inches and seems to be working well going over 2 years now.

I would suggest that you ditch all of the media in your hang on filter and convert it to a mini refugium of sorts. This would require you to light it some how, preferably on a 24/7 or reverse daylight cycle.

I would suggest that you get somewhere in the neighbor hood of 15-25 lbs of quality live rock. Look around a bit, don't jump at the first stuff you see The more porus, less dense, the better. I would probably start with 15 lbs or so and then decide if you wanted more after you get that in the tank and aranged.

If you know of any reefers in your area that can give you a cup or two of sand from their established tanks it would be a huge help. If not and you want to drive to St catharines i will give you some.

For circulation i would suggest maybe a 402 or equivalent, or 2 smaller power heads. 2 smaller would probably be more advantages, but you could make a spray bar and use one larger one.

You will need a heater.. probably a good quality 200 watt or so would be OK.



What do you currently have for lighting?

[Daniel Schubert]

Shannon

I have written a basic users guide that may help. It located at www.maskcanada.org under the library tab along the top. It's divided into two section first one explains all the different pieces that make up a salt water setup followed by a couple of steps to follow that have worked for me

[malachai]

I have to agree with alll the others , it is more than possible. In addition to my 65g sw tank (still setting up) I have a 25g and a 10g sw tank the smaller being just as nice as some larger I have seen although not as nice as I want yet lol. Good Luckwith your 20g. A site you may like to further assure you is http://www.nano-reef.com it is dedicated to sw and reef tanks usually under 20g.

[Fishlips]

As a Cheap set up I'll describe my sea horse tank.

20G Hex,
1 Maxijet 400
3 X 13W compact flourescent lights
3" crushed coral
4 or 5 pieces of live rock
leather corals, mushroom.
4 sea horses (and a couple babies)
4 nerite snails

Thats it. Running with a clown and damsel for 1 year, with sea horses for 6 months. A water change about once or twice a month. The most important thing in my case was using live rock and crushed coral from an existing tank.

[Chrismo]

Hey Shannon,

Small tanks are entirely possible, go for it.
I agree with Fishlips, the most important thing is the live rock. 2nd is the live sand.

You will need to have at least some florescent lights to keep your sand and rock alive, so if you only have the incandescent screw in bulbs, screw some of those compact flourescent ones in there.

I get the impression you are trying to convert to SW on a tiny budget. I'm in the middle of taking one of my tanks down, I'll give you a few pounds of live sand if you want. I'm in toronto too. Bloor and Royal York.

Chris

[Dman]

Shannon,
Running a small tank (nanno)is not for the faint of heart. Especially for the beginner. Water parameters can spiral out of control in a small tank unbelievably fast. Vigilance is the key.
I've seen tanks run by other members on another board as small as two gallons ( I think they call them pico tanks) so it's not a question of if it can be done more a question of dedication.
Please keep us up to date on your progress and if their is any way we can help let us know.
Dman
:spin:

[Shan_McG]

Thanks everyone for your help and insight. I'm starting to think that for the tank I want (a reef with some fish) its probably best if I just save up for a while. I know myself well enough to know that six months down the road I would want to upgrade to a 55g anyway :) This would mean starting from scratch with new equipment and probably using my existing 20g as a sump or hospital tank. I'll keep you updated on my progress. One more question. I've been reading a bit about north american fish breeders. Has anyone delt with them? What are their prices like. I hear they build their own tanks.

Thanks again!
Shannon

[Chrismo]

I just had a tank made by them a month ago... Just a little 20ish gallon one. It was cheap! only $40 gallons, and very solid. Took 5 days.

[Red-Sea]

Shannon, John is a great guy to deal with, most of his pricing is fair & lot cheeper than other LFS, you won't be dissapointed to do business with him...:wave:

[Shan_McG]

$40 per gallon or $40 total for the 20 gallon tank you had made?



Originally posted by Chrismo
I just had a tank made by them a month ago... Just a little 20ish gallon one. It was cheap! only $40 gallons, and very solid. Took 5 days.

[afss]

Knowing the tanks john builds and prices i have seen, I would be guessing 40$ for the 20 gallon tank.

Scott

[Chrismo]

My bad,
It was $40 for a 22 gallon tank. But the size was custom.

:)

[Chrismo]

My bad,
It was $40 for a 22 gallon tank. But the size was custom.

:)

[Shan_McG]

Been doing some more reading and I'm probably going to check out some LFS this afternoon.

Just curious as to how important a RO/DI filter is. In my research people seem to be about 50/50 on whether its absolutley required or not. Is it something I can add on later?

Shannon

[ajx22]

Originally posted by Shan_McG
Been doing some more reading and I'm probably going to check out some LFS this afternoon.

Just curious as to how important a RO/DI filter is. In my research people seem to be about 50/50 on whether its absolutley required or not. Is it something I can add on later?

Shannon

Despite some people's opinion...WATER is the primary item in your tank. It is the ONE thing that everything in the tank requires. To have a good quality salt + skimmer + lights + etc. only to use poor quality water is foolish.

If you live anywhere that uses Municipal Water Supply - then you have Chlorine in your water. More likely then not...you have Chloramine (mixture of Chlorine & Ammonia) since it is more stable and longer-lasting then only Chlorine.

Chlorine is meant to KILL things in the water - so imagine what it does to your fish/corals.

In addition to the chemicals in tap water...you also have metals and other minerals. We all strive to keep copper out of our reef tanks - yet 90% of us have copper water pipes in our homes. Copper DOES leach, and will deposit in your tank. Other minerals get used up by algae in your tank...thus causing algae blooms and other problems.

If you're on well water...then you can either have very clean spring water (still contains metals and minerals) - but have more of a problem then if you were on municipal supply.

If you look at these principals...then having PRESTINE water entering your tank should be your first priority. That being said, IMHO, RO/DI water is manditory.

Check out the following links that will help explain more about Ro & RO/DI:

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/rodi_info.html - Info regarding RO & RO/DI

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/chloramine_info.html - Info regarding Chloramine in your water

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/tds_info.html - Info regarding TDS readings

HTH,