Fish dying everywhere! Oh the humanity

[donricodelavega]

No posts in here in a long time. I hope all my sick and dying fish make this forum more interesting.

First off I've got a sick oscar. From what I've learn from www.oscarfish.com , its got a bacterial infection. Sluggish, not eating, red strips in the tail. I was told to look for a furan or antibotic medication. Wondered if anyone knew of a cheap solution for that one.

Second, I've got a another tank with all kind of different fish. Lately I seem to be loosing about 5 a week. Mostly brichardi. But I've also lost 3 red tail shark, a yellow lab, a firemouth, and this morning a tiger barb. I'm sure its not the mix of fish or anything. They've gotten along for quite a while without problems. Anybody ever had anything like that happen before? I change about 20% of the water a week.

I was also wondering about aquarium salt. How much and how to add it to a freshwater aquarium?
OR, if this being a primarily saltwater community. Anyone know the freshwater equivalent of this website?

Thanks
Rich
:blob:

[johnfish]

I would recommend adding about a half a cup of salt per gallon.

This will solve your disease problem by killing all your fish.

Then you can set up a marine tank instead. Much more fun.

Cheers:)
John

[donricodelavega]

How about I add half a cup of foot to your * * *!

anyone else got anything constructive to add?

Rich


Post edited by Admin
Please keep in mind that this is a PUBLIC forum. Thank you for your co-operation.

[johnfish]

Sorry, not into the *************, Rich.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. None of us here will put you down for your choice of lifestyle.

Edited by Admin

[donricodelavega]

***********************, but I as asking a real question here.

Would kindly evapourate your presence and let me see if anyone else here has something helpful to say, just like they have on numerous other ocassions.
If you're looking to do comedy go to hamilton, be on Club 54, and spread the word about you channel 11 fame.

I'll be polite and say "please" too.
Much appreciated
Rich

[Fishlips]

As per salt, I've heard a teaspoon per gallon but verify that (I'm also into marine).
Do you filter your water before adding to your tank. Perhaps your tap water is getting particularly nasty these days, just a thought. Most marine fish keepers are pretty anal about filtering water whereas most fresh aren't.

Hope this is helpfull.

[donricodelavega]

Dont get me wrong. I think marine tanks are awesome. I'd love one. Just not into the upkeep and expense yet.

You're right about me not being anal about the water I put in my tanks either. I just try and keep the amounts I put in to a minimum. What should I be looking for in the tap water that might be making it all nasty?

Thanks for the salt input. I'll look that up on the net.

Rich

[ajx22]

Originally posted by donricodelavega
You're right about me not being anal about the water I put in my tanks either. I just try and keep the amounts I put in to a minimum. What should I be looking for in the tap water that might be making it all nasty?

Thanks for the salt input. I'll look that up on the net.

Rich

Do a little research on RO/DI filters. These are the filters of choice for tank keepers. There are a million different things that can be present in Municipal Water - so they now add something called Chloramine to the water. Chloramine is a special mixture of Chlorine and Ammonia (bonded together). Considering that you live in the GTA - I can assure you that there is a high concentration of Chloramine in your water.

The other problem with Chloramine is that it will not leave water as Chlorine will - once introduced to the water - it stays there for a MUCH longer period.

There can also be other heavy metals and such, that are acceptable for human consumption, but problematic for fish.

Here is SOME information on RO/DI and Chloramine for your review.

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/chloramine_info.html

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/rodi_info.html

Cheers and Welcome...

[johnfish]

Rich,

Sorry if my little joke got you upset. Just funnin' ya :)

To be serious, have you tested the second tank you mentioned for Nitrates? Does it use an undergravel filter by any chance? Tell us more about the setup.

Cheers,
John

[donricodelavega]

I would use the wording "challenged to a verbal confrontation". Al in good fun.
Could let it go unapposed though :cheers:


The second tank is a 65g with a hot magnum hang on something with the biowheel attachment. There is also a small fluval 1 internal. No undergravel filter. I tested the nitrites and ammonia last night. They were both very low.

R

[johnfish]

Yeah, I would guess the water changes are taking care of the nitrates okay.

I had a freshwater tank that went really well for about a year, then the fish started dying suddenly for no apparent reason.

It became like a death tank. I would add fish, but they just kept dying. Finally, anything put in there would die immediately.

I did total water changes with bottled water, but the fish still died. I think it was the undergravel filter that had become toxic and just kept releasing nitrates or some other kind of poison.

If your fish are just suddenly dying for no apparent reason, I would suspect there is something releasing nasty stuff. Maybe the substrate or the filter media?

Cheers:)
John

[Chrismo]

It's been hot for the past few weeks, if your water temperature is getting high, there will be more (and different) bacteria in our tank. Heat will make your fish's metabolism faster, and they will require more oxygen, which the bacteria will be using too. The aquarium salt you add to freshwater helps the fish fight the bacteria. Not everyone agrees it's such a good thing though.

If you have plants in your community tank, be extra carefull with the salt. They are more sensative then most fish. 1-4 teaspoons per gallon is in the nrmal range... Plants will die at 5 teaspoons per liter because of osmotic pressure.

Chrismo

[donricodelavega]

The subtrate is fine gravel and some sand aswell. Noticed some of the gravel close to the glass has a dark later of schmeg about 2 centimeters below the surface. Water is a little foamy too. The gravel in the tank is relatively thick aswell 3 inches maybe. Something for the huge mass of plants its carrying.

[donricodelavega]

ah osmisis. I remember that fun experiment from highschool. Salt water sucks all the freshwater out of veggies so all salt concentrations remain equal. Thanks for the advice. Maybe I could get a seperate tank and use it to kill the floating plants over running my tank. Ran out of space on the top so I had to plant them on the bottom. Made them grow even fast. Go figure.

R

[johnfish]

Chris has a good point about the heat. The other thing that kills fish quickly without an apparent reason is lack of oxygen.

That gype in the gravel might be good or it might be bad. It is probably anaeroxic bacteria.

If it is taking in nitrates and converting them to nitrogen gas, it is a good thing.

If it is bleeding something poisonous like hydrogen sulphide or methyl sulphate, etc., it is a bad thing.

You may want to consider tearing down the tank and either washing the substrate really well or better yet, replacing it.

The foaming indicates there are excess organic proteins in the water. Sounds like something is rotting.

If you don't find another problem, I'd think about tearing it all down, washing everything, replacing the gravel and putting it back together. Save some of the filter media to keep the good bacteria.

Cheers:)
John

[donricodelavega]

I'll give it a hardcore cleaning. As for tearing it down. I dont know whether I have the space for the fish and plants. The rotting scenario sounds about right. The plants are going nuts in there, but at the same time plant matter is everywhere.

Would a lack of xygen still happen with that amount of plants?
R

[johnfish]

I bet it's that gravel. Maybe not though.

I have a 45g planted freshwater tank that has a one inch plenum space at the bottom, about three inches of large crushed brick and about two inches of Flourite on top. It is sort of a freshwater version of the Jaubert nitrate reduction system :)

It has been going for about a year and seems fine. About a month ago I added a big air pump and a large wooden airstone I had laying around. The airstone is just sitting on the bottom pushing a big column of bubbles up the middle of the tank.

The plants and fish are doing better, I think because of the increased gas exchange. Probably getting higher CO2 and oxygen levels just from the high volume of air. I am becoming a big fan of gas exchange.

The bubbles also blast a hole in the Duckweed so the metal halide light gets below the surface. I have a lot of floating plants for a South America lake effect.


It could be rotting plant matter. Maybe see if you can thin out the plants and get rid of the dead stuff. Syphon out any scum.

The plants will help keep the oxygen up as long as the lights are on. I believe they suck up oxygen and put out CO2 during dark times.

Cheers,
John

[Chrismo]

Plants, (and Algae) make oxygen during the day, when they are getting light and turning it into sugah. But they use oxygen at night, so thats when you'll have problems if you have tonnes of plants.

Also, PH levels will change depending on Oxygen saturation too. In a tank crowded with plants you'll see more of a swing in PH than in a tank with no plants. During the day There will be lots of oxygen and PH goes up, at night, it drops downand so does PH. And PH efects the ability for fish to breath, and their bloods ability to uptake oxygen from the water.

Thats why in marine tanks lots of people will add kalkwasser at night while the PH is lower anyway.

If you really do have THAT many plants growing out of control, maybe thats the culprit. You could do a PH test at day and at night to see if it changes drastically. Planted aquariums look great though. I've heard freshwater fish are pretty forgiving of low or high PH, but the rapid change will still Fcuk them up a bit.

But I dont know what levels or how much fluctuation they can stand... I dont tink I ever tested PH when I had feshwater.

Also Hydrogen Sulphate smells REALLY BAD and strong. I've heard your tank will smell like swamp-farts, before levels are high enough to kill the fish.

Yumm :)

[donricodelavega]

DAMN G. You telling me thats why I wake up to a dead fish every morning?
Yeah, i've caught a water fart in the face once and while.

Its like a little ray of barfshine to brighten your day.

R

[Chrismo]

So John, you have nothing to do at work today either huh?
:D

Chris

[donricodelavega]

You mean John doesn't work here :O

[johnfish]

Yeah, Rich. I make six figures a year working here at Aquarium Pros answering people's questions. :laugh:

No, it is not busy at all today. My voicemail light isn't even on, which is amazing. All my emails are answered. I am supposed to be preparing a scientific paper on Linear Magnetic Sensors, but I am having trouble getting into it.

Wish I could go home and drink beer :cheers:

[Chrismo]

Oh ya, John's the AquariumPros spokesmodel... :)

[donricodelavega]

Damn guy. 6 figures. I'm going to open my own Aquariumpros. I'm going to call it aquariumpros2. I will answer people question about fish and I will drink beer aswell. Then I will use your linear magnetic sensors to fly to the bank and deposit my riches.
Then it will be time for the honeys.

R

[johnfish]

Naw, AJ gets all the beers and honeys. He's the boss after all.

[johnfish]

I never clean my freshwater tank, just add de-chlorinated water (the carbon filtered waste water from the RO/DI filter which feeds the reef tank) and fish food of course.

The idea with this tank was to get a balanced ecosystem going so that everything would be recycled. It is working well so far. I don't even bother removing the occasional dead fish, the bio-system just soaks it up.

The approach was to build a freshwater equivalent of a reef aquarium.

On the bottom I used the Jaubert-like plenum system I described above. The top layer of Flourite is actually covered in about 1/2" of peat moss which was soaked and then rinsed.

Mixed in with this was bits of wood, dead leaves and mud from a healthy clean swamp. This brought in micro organisms and all the various strains of bacteria, etc. found in the swamp. Also lots of snails and little bugs, which are great I think.

The only problem critters were dragonfly nymphs. These nasty little brutes are like 2" long and have huge pinchers! I accidently got three in the tank and they were killing my fish. The freshwater version of Mantis Shrimp!

Instead of live rock I used lots of that knarly sinking wood you can get at the pet store. The idea was to give lots of surface area for friendly bacteria right in the tank.

There is some Val planted on the bottom of the tank which sends up strands into the floating mixture of plants on the surface. On the surface are floating pond plants like Parrot's Feather, Water Iris, Duckweed, etc. These are all native to an Amazonian varzea lake.

A 175W 5500k metal halide supplies light to the system. The air bubbler I described above maintains a patch of clear water right under the light so some light gets under the floating mat of plants. The water level is about 8" below the edge of the tank.

There is a small hang-on power filter that I rinse out twice a day. It simply acts as a water polish filter and does not provide any biological filtering. Without it the water slowly becomes cloudy from fine silt.

All the biological filtering is inside the tank, just like a reef tank. The water has a slight brown tint from the wood and peat. Extra carbon will whiten it up when it gets too tinted. I never change the water because I harvest about a pound of weeds a week. This provides nitrate export.

It looks pretty cool. I have lots of small cheap South American fishes like Tetras of various kinds, livebearers, cory cats, a pleco that has gotten way too big.

Looks natural and requires very little maintenance. It has a clean, fresh, swampy smell all the time. Kind of earthy and green. It took about six months to balance out and stabilize.


Cheers:)
John

[donricodelavega]

Sounds nice. Cant say I've got the time, room and coin to go for something that specialized. Not yet anyway.
Sounds like the tank they have at the science centre.

R

[johnfish]

I haven't seen the tank at the science centre. I will have to check it out.

It is actually a very simple system:

45 gal tank + tubular metal stand.

175W halide in one of those cheap pyrimid reflectors from the hydroponics store.

Tetra Tec Air Pump with a 3" limewood airstone.

Penguin Bio-wheel power filter, the second smallest size (with that stupid bio-wheel thingy ripped off).

300W Hagen heater.

2 bags of flourite
1 bag of crushed brick (Home Depot)
15 pounds of sinking wood

The trick is to get as big a chunk as possible of the ecosystem you are trying to simulate. More diversity, especially in the mico-life, gives you a more powerful system. Once it all balances out, it is very hard to upset. It just rocks along.

Cheers:)
John

[donricodelavega]

65 gallon tank has been cleaned. Sucked up crap off the bottom as best as I could without tearing everything down. Replaced a big chunk of the water and took out a bag full of Ceratopteris plants. Nothing died last night. But that could just be a fluke.

The sick oscar is in a new 5 gallon tank with some Furan medication. Hopefully it survives.

R

[Dman]

This is a shot in the dark as I'm about as knowledgable about freshwater as I am about women. :D

You mentioned that there was foam at the surface. You could try foam fractionation see if that helps with the protien issue.
Dman

[donricodelavega]

DMAN! Still have to email you about a good time to check out that fish tank.

What is foam fractionation by the way?
R

[Fishlips]

fancy name for protein skimmer.

[johnfish]

I've heard a protien skimmer won't work with freshwater because the water isn't thick enough; you can't get bubbles from clean fresh water.

I've always wanted to try it. Maybe you would only get foam in the collection cup when the water was getting bad.

I am thinking of adding a 5 foot length of 4" PVC kind of set up like a Counter Current Skimmer. Maybe a couple of wooden airstones with pumps.

No collection cup, maybe just a clear section to see if there is any foam. A ladel or a spoon or something could be used to skim off any foam.

The main benifit would be excellent gas exchange. Oxygen and CO2 into the water from the huge volume of bubbles, nasty gases out of the water.

I have a bunch of materials left over from the CC skimmer I built. Might be a fun project.

[donricodelavega]

mu bubbles seemed to have disappeared after a really good cleaning of the gravel.
The only prolem I find with bubbles is the mess they leave behind. Unless you plan on throwing the canopy out.

R

[donricodelavega]

and about a 35% water change. Forgot that part.

[Fishlips]

I've seen a freshwater protein skimmer, big expensive unit. I believe it was for ponds, at least it was beside the pond section in a LFS.

[Chrismo]

I also heard that Foam skimmers dont work much at all for freshwater.
The density of the water is too low and bubbles wont form ...

That was the word on the street anyway.

But Some guy with a pool once told me he had a foaming thing that cleaned his water.... so who knows.

Chris.

Damn John stole my post!

[Dman]

That's nonsense, where do you guys think skimming came from?
Municipal waste water treatment plants, that's where. Adapted a little bit smaller, ok, alot smaller for us hobbiests.
Dman
:spin:

[donricodelavega]

K, the oscar died.
Heard it jump at the glass under the towel then saw it sinking to the bottom.

Had some new info regarding all the dying fish in my planted 65 tank.
I got home, everyone seemed ok. Then I fed them some of "big als sinking sticks" and some flake food. Then I noticed a couple of fish acting different.

A Fire Mouth was down in the weeds. It looked like it was having trouble breathing.

My last Bala Shark started having the same trouble breathing and floating vertical. In fact its still floating around the same way.

I have a school of tinfoil barbs that are getting rather big aswell. They usually eat all the sticks before anyone else gets a chance.

I also noticed that there was one of those moisture absorbing packets in the fish container. Wondering if thatcould be causing problems.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Rich

[donricodelavega]

*fish "food" container