Potassium permanganate and hydrogen peroxide for parasite control

[saltintheeyes]

Hey all,
I'm just trying to expand my knowledge base of potential fish treatments when it comes to things like parasites. Someone in another older thread mentioned the use of potassium permanganate and hydrogen peroxide in controlling external parasites. I found some general info on the web, but haven't come across any 'protocols' for use in a reef tank. The AP search function appears to be down, so I couldn't see if this has already been discussed

So I'd like to solicit everyone's opinions and experiences with this potential regimen (which I think would fall under advanced use). As a side note, I am familiar with using permanganate as a dip for plants back in my freshwater days, but have never tried using it for treating infected fish.

Thanks folks!

[Monti]

From an old thread (33 months ago!) origianlly from Reefs.com.
The search engine worked for me.

"a good way to reduce DOC is to add controlled dosages of potassium permanganate diluted in water to the aquarium. Use a 5 % solution and be very careful with the amounts added as KMnO4 increases the redox potential rapidly and that can shock the corals and fish so you need to add a little of the liquid frequently so that DOC slowly gets oxidized and that cyanos do not have enough nutrients to grow. Siphon all cyanos out when you see them. Do not let them get out of hand and do not stop the addition of the KmnO4 too soon or you will not have achieved what you are trying to accomplish. It can take 5 to 7 days before you see a large difference but the diluted pot permang will do the trick for sure
Ozone is another way to go but that poses a problem in reef tanks as the corals will react negatively for pre-treating or for injecting in the skimmer at low dosages though, it is another method that can be used. I have excellent success treating tanks that have such problems when I do consulting work that I use the potassium permanaganate most of the time."

[mr.wilson]

Don't add potassium permangenate to a display tank. It will turn your water and some surfaces brown.

Peroxide is safe to add to the tank, but use extreme caution as peroxide can very from source to source and it will raise your redox potential quickly.

Like any oxidizer, it's dosed according to DOC (dissolved organic carbon) and POC (particulate organic carbon) levels, rather than the volume of the tank.

[saltintheeyes]

Thanks for the replies Monti and Mr. Wilson!

Regarding just using peroxide, is this useful (by itself) in helping treat for parasites? If so, how do you calculate how much to use?

[mr.wilson]

Thanks for the replies Monti and Mr. Wilson!

Regarding just using peroxide, is this useful (by itself) in helping treat for parasites? If so, how do you calculate how much to use?

I don't know, I've never used it for that purpose. You would be best to dose it according to your redox potential. As long as it stays below 450, you should be safe.

The standard rule of thumb for medicating fish is to use half of a lethal dose. For example, if ten drops kills a fish, use 5 drops. Of course this standard is a lot easier to justify in commercial and lab conditions.

You should watch your mushrooms and use them as an indicator of an irritant/toxicity in the water.

Peroxide should be dosed every four hours or so, according to DOC, POC, and redox. Polyp Lab offers a peroxide complex that stays in solution longer. The medication also contains metronidazole.

I wouldn't experiment with it myself, other than in a dip.

[saltintheeyes]

Thanks again Mr. Wilson! I don't think I'll be experimenting with it either in the display. I was mostly curious.

I do have metronidazole that I'm mixing with Focus, garlic extract and food to treat what I believe is ich (crypto) on a sailfin tang in the display. Although, i am starting to wonder if its both crypto and oodinium together. The salt grain look is there, not too many, on the body and a couple of fins. But I've also noticed a grayish/white discolouration on the body that appears to be spreading. The patchy discolouration doesn't really have a velvety appearance to it though, and I don't think its made up of small dots either (but the tang moves too fast for me to get a good look). My understanding of oodinium is that it starts in the gills and then spreads to the body, so rapid/laboured breathing is the first sign of it. The tang isn't breathing rapidly, and it isn't labouring at all, so I'm not sure what to think. Are sailfin's prone to discolourations?

The tang is eating like a pig and swimming normally. So I don't think I'll do anything drastic. It hasn't spread to any other fish that I can tell (its been over a week now since I first saw initial symptoms. I guess I'll keep the peroxide idea in check for now, and stay the course and see how things go (unless I'm advised otherwise byt our gurus here).

[mr.wilson]

Sailfins and many other tangs turn pale with oodinium.

[saltintheeyes]

Sailfins and many other tangs turn pale with oodinium.


The sailfin hasn't really paled. The overall colouration is good I think (still deep colours, nice yellow stripes, good contrast between the dark and white stripes). Its just somewhat patchy looking, for lack of a better description.

[mr.wilson]

The sailfin hasn't really paled. The overall colouration is good I think (still deep colours, nice yellow stripes, good contrast between the dark and white stripes). Its just somewhat patchy looking, for lack of a better description.

Patchy appearance is the same as pale. Typical symptom of oodinium, that is rarely attributed to cryptocaryon or bacterial/fungal infections.

[saltintheeyes]

Patchy appearance is the same as pale. Typical symptom of oodinium, that is rarely attributed to cryptocaryon or bacterial/fungal infections.

Thanks for the clarification. Some great learnings here for me. Looks like I may have to revise my treatment protocol. I take it metronidazole has no effect on oodinium? Thanks again!