Please help me with my skimmer

[smp]

I'm so frustrated.
First, I had a turboflotor 1000 multi, which isn't recirculating and the pump I had with it just sucked.
I "upgraded" to a turboflotor 1000 (standard) which is a recirculating skimmer and it came with an OR2500 with needlewheel.
I had to replace my sump to fit this thing, which I did this morning. I've been trying to tune this damn thing all day.

First, I couldn't plumb my overflow right to it for lack of parts so I figured I would do that at a later date and just run it off a powerhead for now. I have a MJ 400 hooked up to it and I have a valve on it to control how much flow goes in.
The skimmer is sitting in about 6" of water. The bubble production is amazing, much better than with the aquabee pump I had BUT it just overflows!
I have totally removed the flow restrictors on the outlets to lower the water level as much as possible and I have restricted the flow off of the MJ 400 until there is barely a trickle coming out of the outlets on the skimmer and it STILL overflows!
The thing that bugs me is that it's inconsistent. For example, the bubbles are rising half way up the riser right now, but just minutes ago it was overflowing, I don't understand!!!

Please help me, I'm totally fed up with this thing. So much work to swap sumps today and everything and now this.

[Argh]

New skimmers take a while to break in, the plastic is new and would have oils from the factory still on it. Give it time and let it run for a while. Don't expect it to be perfectly dialed in within a lone day.

Sounds like you are doing everything well so far.

[smp]

I guess it doesn't matter if it's a used skimmer then eh?
I wouldn't be surprised if I was simply having a problem dialing it in but I can't get it to _not_ overflow :(


Also, something else that I've noticed is that it surges .. the outlets seem to discharge water at a variable rate .. trickle trickle, pour .. trickle trickle, pour

that shouldn't be? no?

[mr.wilson]

They take a few days to break in whether it's new or old. A biological film grows on the plastic and provides stability for the foam.

It looks like your drain isn't plumbed right. Try taking the two drain tubes off completely, so you can isolate the problem.

Try using a different pump, as maxijets aren't the best for the job. At least switch it out to isolate the problem.

Why don't you use the display drain to feed the T1000?

Let us know how that works out.

[Reeftopia]

Hey, I was just fighting with a Turboflotor 1000 last night as well!
Here's our problem. (I think it's the same as yours)
When my parents moved the sump downstairs yesterday on the 83G they cleaned the skimmer and re-mounted it as a hang-on.
Next thing I get a call saying it's overflowing like crazy. I go check it out and sure enough it's running into the collection cup so fast it's full in under a minute! One thing I noticed is the OR2500 pump's cover was a little loose. I put it back tight and NOW the thing was almost dead, minimal bubbles and a trickle of output. I moved the pump lower in the tank to get it away from the insane amount of bubbles coming out of the oferflow and no help yet.... Shut everything down and checked the airline, took it off the little pre-filter and Voila! it ran OK.
The input airline must have had salt in it.
Here's what I noticed, the OR2500 cover must be on! it restrict the flow into the pump and increases the volume of bubbles by creating more vacuum on the venturi. Also the venturi actually limits the capacity of the pump, the less air you have the more water the pump can move. This pump seems to be too powerfull for the skimmer when the cover is off.
If there is any other way to run it full steam let me know! Oh, and the output knobs do NOTHING! especially when the water is already exceeding the capacity of the machine.
Shane

[smp]

They take a few days to break in whether it's new or old. A biological film grows on the plastic and provides stability for the foam.

It looks like your drain isn't plumbed right. Try taking the two drain tubes off completely, so you can isolate the problem.

I don't understand what you mean by drain tubes, if you're talking about the ones that come off the skimmer i have removed the knobs that restrict flow altogether as they can only raise the water level in the skimmer.



Try using a different pump, as maxijets aren't the best for the job. At least switch it out to isolate the problem.

I have no other pump to try. The main pump is the OR2500 and the MJ400 is just a feed pump to substitute the overflow water that hasn't been plumbed in yet. I have the MJ on a valve so I can play with how much water is going into the skimmer.



Why don't you use the display drain to feed the T1000?

I plan to, I just didn't have the plumbing parts this weekend and wanted to get on with the sump transplant and everything.



Let us know how that works out.

Here's a picture:

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/photopost/data/1/medium/179_7951.jpg

it's hard to make out how it's plumbed but it's plumbed the way it's supposed to be, as far as I can tell:

http://www.petstore.com/mdstore/IMD/150/AMTFKOR.jpg

cept i beleive in that image their using a rio pump, I'm using the "better" OR2500 with needlewheel.

[bioload]

I don't understand what you mean by drain tubes, if you're talking about the ones that come off the skimmer i have removed the knobs that restrict flow altogether as they can only raise the water level in the skimmer.

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/photopost/data/1/medium/179_7951.jpg



The gray 90* pvc elbows disconnect the drain pipes from the skimmer. Just pull them off (gently). You will be able to see the flow exiting the skimmer better with the tubes completely off.

[smp]

The gray 90* pvc elbows disconnect the drain pipes from the skimmer. Just pull them off (gently). You will be able to see the flow exiting the skimmer better with the tubes completely off.
Already did that yesterday, actually took a video of how little flow was coming out of the drains but I couldn't post it anywhere. I put the drains back on to limit noise as I sleep in the same space as the tank.
The flow out of the drains was basically a trickle, like I said, the flow off the maxijet 400 is limited using a valve.

[bioload]

Have you tried adjusting the water level in the sump...higher/lower.

I was running without a seperate feed to the skimmer. Just dropped it into the sump and let it run. Had the level about 1/2" below the two exit pipes.

I'm leaving work now and will check the numbers when I get home but I think the flow for your tank through the skimmer should only be about 25g/h....and the 400 is about 100g/h

[smp]

Have you tried adjusting the water level in the sump...higher/lower.

If I raise the water level in the sump I effectively raise the water level in the skimmer, right? The water level is pretty low in the sump, the only thing I could do is raise the skimmer.



I was running without a seperate feed to the skimmer. Just dropped it into the sump and let it run. Had the level about 1/2" below the two exit pipes.

I'll try that.



I'm leaving work now and will check the numbers when I get home but I think the flow for your tank through the skimmer should only be about 25g/h....and the 400 is about 100g/h

The MJ 400 is limited using a valve, it was limited the point that the drains were only producing a very, very light trickle. If I had closed that valve any more it would have been zero flow. It was easily 25gph probably even less.

[bioload]

Here is a shot of the sump level when I was running without a powerhead.

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/photopost/data/2/Dsc03190.jpg

[smp]

Thanks for the pic.

What I don't understand is that if you're not feeding the skimmer with a powerhead or your overflow, how much tank water actually makes it's way in? Right now I have disconnected the powerhead and the water level in the skimmer is at half way in the reaction chamber. The hole where the overflow is supposed to be plumbed looks like it's expelling water though I know that it's both acting as an intake and an outlet right now but how much water is going in and out is questionable.

[bioload]

When I placed the skimmer in the sump the OR2500 would pull the water in through the inlet. The level of the water in the sump had to be just below the exit pipes, and I would get continuous flow through the outlets.

Have you tried removing the powerhead and raising the level in the sump at the same time? you will be able to determine the flow by what is exiting the skimmer

One more thing you could try is to reduce the amount of air into the venturi. Not ideal since you would want as much air as possible, but the overflow problem is usually quite simple....the volume entering the skimmer (water / air) is greater than the volume that exits the skimmer causing it to overlfow.

Keep us posted

[Keith T]

Are you sure that the tube that allows the air to enter the O R pump just before the needle wheel is completely clear. I have had a lot of trouble with mine plugging up with calcium. I use a drill bit to clean mine out on a regular basis. Just a thought.

Keith

[smp]

So in an act of desperation I went to a different home depot today and got some parts .. managed to screw up my main drain line in an act of frustration and now I'm screwed. The skimmer isn't even making foam anymore, I don't even know why.

I had it set up with the overflow running directly into the skimmer through a ball valve and that was okay for about ten minutes until the OR2500 stopped producing foam. Now I have to troubleshoot that on top of my other problems. I'm starting to hate this hobby, the only way to be successful with anything is by getting the most expensive equipment.

[smp]

Okay I hacked everything together and it's staying put for the time being.
New problem, now I can't get the water level in the skimmer UP!!!
I hate this. The drain could pretty well go any minute too flooding my basement but I'm risking it until I figure out how to work this damned skimmer.

Are the folks running expensive skimmers having headaches like this? Should I just buy an ER and be done with it?

[smp]

Did a vinegar bath with the pump today, cleaned out the air intake inside the fitting on the skimmer, I don't know what else to do. The pump moves a lot of water but DOESN'T MAKE BUBBLES!

This is a far worse experience than moving my tank. I have no skimmer now as my old one is in the backyard soaking in a bin and I'm not about to go dig out and I have two 14 hour days at work back to back tomorrow and the next day.
shoot me

[Dene]

.....lets back up a bit. Remove the drain tube, the one with the grey elbow....then, tell us exactly what the skimmer does....after that, half cover the output (drain) pipe with your hand and tell us what it does. Then thirdly, cover the whole drain with your hand, (it should fill with water completely to the top of the cup and will want to overflow), and tell us what it does.

You don't need top of the line equipment to enjoy the hobby.

[smp]

.....lets back up a bit. Remove the drain tube, the one with the grey elbow....then, tell us exactly what the skimmer does....

Water comes out.
When I had the MJ400 hooked up, the flow coming out of the drain tubes was directly proportional to how much I throttled the MJ400, as it should be. Even with a trickle, the slightest amount of flow from the MJ400, the skimmer would eventually (like in about a minute) overflow. The bubbles would just keep climbing and overflow the collection cup and fill it within a matter of minutes.



after that, half cover the output (drain) pipe with your hand and tell us what it does.

With the restrictors in place (set to half), it would overflow.



Then thirdly, cover the whole drain with your hand, (it should fill with water completely to the top of the cup and will want to overflow), and tell us what it does.

Closing the restrictors all the way would make it overflow. It was overflowing with them wide open. Not sure if you're familiar with the T1000 but it's got these restrictor built into the drain tubes that allow you to control the hieght of the water in the skimmer .. in an ideal world :)
No matter what I did with these, wide open, half closed, fully closed, the skimmer would overflow.



You don't need top of the line equipment to enjoy the hobby.

I'm really starting to think otherwise. My tank has been looking like crap lately, even with frequent water changes, I just can't keep up. The T1000 multi I had on here before this skimmer would pull out about an inch of tea like skimmate in a day or two .. I would have to clean the throat of the colletion cup daily to get it to perform even this much... and that's if it pulled anything out. I have read as much info is available online about that particular skimmer and pump (aquabee) and i did everything I could in the way of tweaking it. That particular pump was god knows how old as i bought that skimmer used with my setup and I got this current skimmer used as well so god knows how old the OR2500 is but I'm suspecting that it's ready to die. No bubble action anymore.

[Dene]

.....the fact that it overflows, with the drain off means too much water input to begin with.

What size is/was the original pump?
And what size is the input tube?

[mr.wilson]

Coralscaping is correct. Don't shoot it, trouble-shoot it.

If the OR 2700 is properly connected, you shouldn't have any "new" water entering the skimmer (if the skimmer feed line is off). The water level should remain constant if you aren't feeding the skimmer. Try to push the pump firmly in place to assure a good connection. The OR 2700 is strictly a recirculating, closed loop, for the purpose of generating bubbles only.

It's possible that the Or 2700 is allowing water to enter via the feed port through a venturi action. You may need to plug the feed port during some of the trouble-shooting procedures.

If you have no bubbles, the problem is in the venturi, not the pump. Even if the needlewheel is replaced with the standard impeller, you will still have bubbles produced.

As Keith suggested, you likely have calcium, salt, or hard tube worms in the venturi. Manually blow into the airline to make sure air can pass through it. Salt usually crystallizes at the top (intake), and bottom (venturi) of the hose. You should be cleaning these areas every month or so with a toothpick. Clean the venturi as well, making sure air can pass freely to the pump intake.

Another exercise is to put the skimmer in a laundry tub and fill it with water, covering the venturi with your thumb. Remove your thumb and note how quickly the water drains through it. If it runs slowly, you need to remove the obstruction.

The OR 2700 will perform differently according to the amount of air it is fed. A lot of air will increase the volume of bubbles, which may overflow the skimmer. A lesser amount of air will increase the water flow which would potentially overflow the skimmer if the pump isn't properly connected and drawing water from the sump.

[Dene]

smp,
I agree with Mr.Wison, jot down what he is saying point by point, my hunch is the venturi on the original pump. You may have to soak in vinegar to unplug. Scrap the Maxi-jet 400 idea, that's what's frustrating things.

[smp]

I removed the MJ a long time ago.
Also, I did clean the venturi with a needle and I soaked the OR2700 in vinegar tonight, the bubbles are still just big, useless bubbles, not the foam that i was getting in the beginning of the day.

I understand everything you guys are saying.
The OR2700 is only being used to recirculate water. When the inlet is left open with nothing attached (neither MJ400 or overflow) the level of water in the skimmer is at half, doesn't even reach the collection cup and there is nothing coming out of the drain tubes.

I used a ball valve with both the MJ400 and the drain from the tank to control how much water was entering the skimmer, no matter what I did, the skimmer would eventually overflow. Now, the overflow isn't straight water, it was too much bubble action. But as the day progressed the situation changed and now I can't get decent bubbles out of the pump at all .. this is after cleaning the airline, blowing through it, cleaning the holes with a pin and giving the pump a vinegar bath. Let me be clear that there are bubbles, but they are big bubbles almost like you would get from an air pump, not the desirable micro bubbles that I was getting earlier today.

Thank you guys very much for your help and time spent giving me suggestions, I appreciate it very much. If you can think of anything else, please let me know. Right now i can't tangle with this thing until wednesday evening as I have work and evening classes for the next two days. I'll keep checking in.

[mr.wilson]

The needlewheel is made up of two or three rings glued together. I had one break apart in shipping recently.

Remove the impeller and make sure the rings are still bonded together.

[smp]

I had the OR2700 open a couple of times yesterday and had the impeller out both times, it looked normal, but the shaft seemed weird. I couldn't remember if it had little rubber nipples on either end or not but it didn't yesterday. I know it's turning because it still moves water though.

[D.Style]

Hey smp,

I'm not sure how to fix the non-bubbling part of the Ocean Runner. It sounds like a possible venturi/needlewheel issue. When you pinch the airline down, do the bubbles become finer or the same issue?

I wanted to post about how to run that particular skimmer without a feed pump. Take a wine cork. Or anything that can plug up a hole. And plug the intake inside the skimmer. Just leave the intake of the pump open sucking from the sump. Leave everything else the same (output of the pump). It is MUCH easier to tune in properly without using a feed pump..

Hope you get it worked out!

[smp]

Hey smp,

I'm not sure how to fix the non-bubbling part of the Ocean Runner. It sounds like a possible venturi/needlewheel issue. When you pinch the airline down, do the bubbles become finer or the same issue?

I wanted to post about how to run that particular skimmer without a feed pump. Take a wine cork. Or anything that can plug up a hole. And plug the intake inside the skimmer. Just leave the intake of the pump open sucking from the sump. Leave everything else the same (output of the pump). It is MUCH easier to tune in properly without using a feed pump..

Hope you get it worked out!

That's interesting, I think I'll try that. Thanks!

[Keith T]

I also read somewhere about someone who was having a lot of trouble with the O R pump and it turned out to be the ceramic shaft.

Keith.

[in_flight]

whereabouts are you located smp? i may be able to come by after work to help you out

[bioload]

I've got the kids in the afternoon, but if you want to bring it by I can drop it into my sump and have a look as well.

[in_flight]

i was browsing through some pics and noticed your picture of your overflowing Turboflotor

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/photopost/data/1/medium/179_7951.jpg

this happened to me also, easily solved, the problem is that believe it or not the OR is sucking TOO MUCH air. Sounds contradictory seeing as we want as much air as possible for the skimmer but it's true. Just pick up an airline valve and restrict the airflow a little bit, this will create smaller and tighter bubbles. Also are your 2 valves in the output of the skimmer fully open? You may also want to take off those 2 downpipes, they create backpressure with the skimmer, just let the output flow freely, if it's too noisy just see if you can position the outpipes so that it's a little above water level and it'll help with your skimmer control

[smp]

Thanks for the offers, both of you.
And thanks for the tip In_flight. I didn't have any time yesterday because I got home at 11 o'clock (left the house at half past seven) and today will be the same story. I did fire up the skimmer last night though, I have it set up with a full sump so the water line is at the bottom of the drains. It's skimming, but no better than my previous skimmer. But hey, step in the right direction.

I have to replace the temporary sump that's in my cabinet right now with the old one once I modify it to fit the T1000 and then the water level will be back down again so I'll get myself an air valve and hope for the best. The OR was making bubbles again last night though I didn't do anything to make that happen except turn it on, nothing was changed since the night before. I hate inconsistency!
I'll be back to post some more in tomorrow.

edit: oh, and something that is weird is that the skimmer surges. I think it's the pump or it could be that there's nothing plumbed into the inlet (it's just open in the sump) but the skimmate will collect for a second and then get pushed out of the neck by a surge of air. This happens consistently at a rate of about 2 seconds. It's subtle though.

[in_flight]

Thanks for the offers, both of you.
And thanks for the tip In_flight. I didn't have any time yesterday because I got home at 11 o'clock (left the house at half past seven) and today will be the same story. I did fire up the skimmer last night though, I have it set up with a full sump so the water line is at the bottom of the drains. It's skimming, but no better than my previous skimmer. But hey, step in the right direction.

I have to replace the temporary sump that's in my cabinet right now with the old one once I modify it to fit the T1000 and then the water level will be back down again so I'll get myself an air valve and hope for the best. The OR was making bubbles again last night though I didn't do anything to make that happen except turn it on, nothing was changed since the night before. I hate inconsistency!
I'll be back to post some more in tomorrow.

edit: oh, and something that is weird is that the skimmer surges. I think it's the pump or it could be that there's nothing plumbed into the inlet (it's just open in the sump) but the skimmate will collect for a second and then get pushed out of the neck by a surge of air. This happens consistently at a rate of about 2 seconds. It's subtle though.

no problem, that surging happened with my turboflotor also and it still happens with my H&S..i think it's normal

[D.Style]

Hmm, I always thought surging was a bad thing

SMP: If your drain pipes from the skimmer have any kind of resistance, you might have some surging.


Inflight: On your H&S what are you connecting to the drain output? You may also have some resistance on the drains or the other possibility is surging from the feed? (If yours is an external/gravity fed model)

[in_flight]

Hmm, I always thought surging was a bad thing

SMP: If your drain pipes from the skimmer have any kind of resistance, you might have some surging.


Inflight: On your H&S what are you connecting to the drain output? You may also have some resistance on the drains or the other possibility is surging from the feed? (If yours is an external/gravity fed model)
the surging is not in my output, it's in the collection chamber, bubbles are pushed up in the neck and on occasion a big push will knock off the big foam collecting at the top of the collection cup

my drain output is open and it's a steady flow. i have the in sump model, not a recirc so does not require a feed pump/output

i'll take a little video today--off work :D

[D.Style]

Inflight: Yea, I understand that the surging is noticed in the collection cup. But I think the cause for surging in the neck usually comes from some kind of restriction in the output or surging input lines. The needlewheel pump itself should not cause a fluctuation in the water level inside the skimmer chamber.

I used to own the F2001 internal as well. I don't remember it surging so that's why I mentioned the possible output restrictions heh. It's also possible that I may not have been as observant about things like that at that point. If you have nothing connected to the output 'T', and the water just gets pushed out into the air (and back into the sump), then you're right there is no way there could be any kind of restriction. =)

The H&S F2001 was my favorite skimmer I've ever owned. Close to silent and great performance.

[bioload]

no problem, that surging happened with my turboflotor also and it still happens with my H&S..i think it's normal

:iagree:

Sounds normal. foam will build in the riser, get more dense (bubbles take longer to pop), and then get forced out the riser.

[mr.wilson]

:iagree:

Sounds normal. foam will build in the riser, get more dense (bubbles take longer to pop), and then get forced out the riser.

Correct. The bubbles merge at the top of the skimmer and push the upper bubbles into the collection cup. The upper bubbles drop abruptly when lower bubbles pop. This action is ideal, and is not to be confused with a surge in the water level.

[in_flight]

bioload and mr. wilson are correct, i may have worded it incorrectly, it's the bubbles that surge in the neck, not the water level. As soon as i set the wedge pipe, the water level remains constant and the bubbles/foam is what surges. Same action as my turboflotor, as soon as i had the feed right and dialed in my skimmer, it was a go from there

D. Style, i mention the neck because i like drier skimmate and so the water level is just below the bottom of the collection cup, so all i see is bubbles in the neck portion

[smp]

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/photopost/data/3086/medium/179_7953.jpg

I think it was overflowing because of something in the water that first day.
The above picture isn't ideal, but I'm a lot closer to dialing it in than I was before. I'm gonna go drain some water out of the sump and mess around with it some more.

[mr.wilson]

Good to hear...and you thought the sky was falling.

I don't think it was the case with you, but I thought I would note for the people following the thread, that you cannot produce small bubbles in freshwater. This comes up when people test their skimmers in a laundry tub or basin.

Increasing the salinity of the tank to 1.025 will markedly improve the stability of foam and skimming ability.

[smp]

I'm running 1.026

I can never get the bubbles to stick around for long in the neck though, they always seem to pop and little, if anything, makes it's way out to the top. The throat on my T1000 multi would always get covered in crud and I would have an almost empty collection cup with about half an inch to an inch of wet, tea like skimmate. This one looks like it'll be doing the same, but I'll be patient with it for now, I have to get it working.
I have an algae problem though and I know my water quality isn't so good. What can I do to get my tank pristine again? The skimmer is there to keep it that way once it's clean. I have been doing a lot of water changes in the past month and it's not helping, I've even lowered my lighting schedule to 8 hours. I feed so little I think my fish will starve and I rinse frozen food (except cyclop-eeze because they're too small).

Basically, I'm worried that with my tank having been run without a skimmer (for all intensive purposes it may as well have been) for so long that the organics that have been lingering in the tank water have bonded to my rocks and substrate and that no matter what I do they will remain. Am I just being paranoid again? :)

[mr.wilson]

What kind of algae? How bad?

[in_flight]

my T1000 didn't working consistantly for about a week then i guess it kicked in from there, i also adjusted the skimmer so that the water was about .75" above the bottom of the neck

[smp]

my T1000 didn't working consistantly for about a week then i guess it kicked in from there, i also adjusted the skimmer so that the water was about .75" above the bottom of the neck

The water, or the foam?

Mr. Wilson, it's hair algae :(
Not tooo bad, but it's here and there in the lower flow areas and in some places it threatens to choke out some zoos :\
My tank isn't overrun with it, but it could be if I didn't regularily pick it at by hand and do 20% water changes a couple of times a week. I do either 1 or 2 water changes a week for about 3 weeks now. Regular for me would be about 1 every 2 weeks.

[in_flight]

The water, or the foam?


water

[smp]

I still wasn't getting skimmate, nor was I able to accuratly control the level of foam in the neck, so...

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/photopost/data/3086/179_7960.jpg


The overflow is plumbed straight in, no ball valve, no nothing, just a tee off. I didn't have room for a ball valve. I throttled the air intake with a venturi thingy from a maxi-jet and now control the level of water in the skimmer with the two gate valves. I figure if this doesn't work out I can reuse the gate valves somewhere else.

The thing that has always puzzled (and annoyed) me about this skimmer design is the collection cup/throat. My foam always seems to get crushed on it's way up the narrowing throat and it pops there. The only thing keeping me going is the pics of skimmate that in_flight posted.
I keep thinking that if the throat was designed straight the way it is on other skimmers I would be getting good skimmate.

[D.Style]

Very cool!

Where did you get those valves from?

[smp]

Canadian tire :D
(leslie shepperd location)
They have everything you would want for 1/2" and 3/4" stuff, but not much of anything else. Still, way better than Home Depot and I can never make it to JJ Downs because they're only open while I'm at work. Also, I found them expensive (call me crazy).

[Dene]

Hey smp !!!! Looks like you are making progress!!!

Good job!

[smp]

Still no sludge though!
I think since the weekend I have pulled out an inch of tea :\

Big water change coming this weekend.

[in_flight]

I still wasn't getting skimmate, nor was I able to accuratly control the level of foam in the neck, so...

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/photopost/data/3086/179_7960.jpg


The overflow is plumbed straight in, no ball valve, no nothing, just a tee off. I didn't have room for a ball valve. I throttled the air intake with a venturi thingy from a maxi-jet and now control the level of water in the skimmer with the two gate valves. I figure if this doesn't work out I can reuse the gate valves somewhere else.

The thing that has always puzzled (and annoyed) me about this skimmer design is the collection cup/throat. My foam always seems to get crushed on it's way up the narrowing throat and it pops there. The only thing keeping me going is the pics of skimmate that in_flight posted.
I keep thinking that if the throat was designed straight the way it is on other skimmers I would be getting good skimmate.
i also tried that maxijet air valve and it was junk, i used a cheapo lee's air valve (blue one) from BA's and it did the trick perfectly, i restricted the flow just a hair below WOT (i'm sure you know what that means:bwink:). My water level was also a bit higher than yours so that the bubbles popped just below the lip of the neck. This still allowed me to dry skim abit which i prefer and hence the dark skimmate i get

like d.style said, i like those valves, i would have picked those up also if i knew they existed, how much where they? i think i'll add them on to my fuge outflow

try not to worry too much about the lip of the neck getting too cruddy, that always happens first but i still got pretty good skimmate, every 5-7 days i'd have a full cup

[smp]

Excellent, that's just what I wanted to know .. how high up your bubbles were popping. I think one of the main reasons I have so much inconsistency is that I can't keep my hands out of my tank!
Now that I have some control of the situation I'll keep my hands out until I get it tuned right. Thanks for the tip on the air valve.

The gate valves were 7.50 each, or thereabouts and seem to be of good quality. Only thing is they are schedule 40 (I think). Whichever the thinner wall PVC is.

You have VERY cute kids by the way :)
The car was nice too, interesting how changes in priorities are reflected in things like avatars and signatures. Or maybe I just spend too much time online.
And WOT? I don't .. know .. what .. you are .. talking about :o
I try to keep it under 12k rpm officer, really.

[in_flight]

You have VERY cute kids by the way :)
The car was nice too, interesting how changes in priorities are reflected in things like avatars and signatures. Or maybe I just spend too much time online.
And WOT? I don't .. know .. what .. you are .. talking about :o
I try to keep it under 12k rpm officer, really.

thanks, i think they're pretty cute too! yeah i spend more time on my tank than with the car now, and you're right about the priorities. I always post late or at work so that i can spend most of my free time with my kids when they're awake

and i can't even imagine 12k on my car, 6k and she starts groaning

[smp]

Redlines at 14.5k .. front wheel comes up at 6 :)

[smp]

Okay .. so thanks to everyone's help I've managed to get this far:


http://www.aquariumpros.ca/photopost/data/3086/medium/179_7963.jpg

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/photopost/data/3086/medium/179_7964.jpg


Note that those pics were taken one right after the other, about 20 minutes after a water change and collection cup cleaning.
This is as good as I've gotten it and it yeilds about 3/4" of darker, tea-like skimmate a day. Still not much, I'm starting to wonder whether I just don't feed enough to yeild anymore.
You'll notice that the lip of the neck already has a little coating of crud on it .. this is probably where most, if not all, the crud ends up. Once that lip gets crudded up it stops producing anything, the bubbles no longer make it further than the lip. If I raise the water level any, I just get really wet, clear skimmate and have to empty the collection cup too quickly.
You'll also notice that the water level is pretty high in the throat there, I have the air intake choked pretty good. If I don't choke it the bubbles seem to be too large and I can only seem to collect water that way.

[smp]

Is this about as good as it gets?
24 hours after the above pictures:

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/photopost/watermark.php?file=4682

I don't know, I see all these pictures of other people's thick, disgusting skimmate and it makes me feel inadequate :(

[in_flight]

looks like you're still skimming too wet, maybe lower the water level a little bit. You don't have too heavy a bioload compare to me and that may be a reason, i'm also a sucker during feeding time and give in to my fish's begging

[smp]

Yeah, I figure I just don't feed a lot, I've trained myself to feed very little as I've never been happy with my equipments abilities to remove what I put in.
If I lower the water level any I stop getting any skimmate in the cup, so I guess this will have to do. Better wet skimmate than no skimmate.

[Dene]

I'd let it run like that for a week or two and let it break in.

What do you use for a calcium additive? The reason that I am asking is because Kalkwasser can help the performance of a skimmer through saponiphication.