AEFW, REDBUGS AND OTHER PESTS and QT

[Darryl_V]

Hey SPS guys

I have seen a lot of concern over Acro Eating Flatworms over at RC lately. I also have seen some monti nudibranch threads. I have also had red bugs and used interceptor to rid them..which worked well.

My question is what kind of precautions are people here taking about pests through trading and acquiring through the LFS??

Are you concerned when you buy and trade species of acro or monti?? Do you quarantine or dip?? if so what are your procedures??

Just with all the talk about these trouble makers I am growing more and more concerned about acquiring new pieces. Especially when my talk is doing so well I would hate to have the devastation of AEFW just because I wanted ONE more (there is never just one more).

[Duce]

If I know there is a potential risk of red bugs...I dip in Interceptor.
If I know the monti from a particular are has higher risk of monti eating nudi...I just avoid them now....

[Darryl_V]

wow...not much activity on this thread. So nobody else does any sort of qt or dip process on there newly acquired pieces??

[bru65]

Probably most people don't quaranteen or do any sort of prophylactic dip. Myself, I don't have a quarantine tank due to space issues (live in a condo).

I do try to dip with Interceptor, Iodine (Lugol's) and Flatworm Exit before adding any new corals. Note: I do this regiment one after the other. Don't know if it would be detrimental to add them all at once though.
Sometimes with the excitement of adding a new coral I forget to do it though.

Anyone else do anything different? Please share.. :)

[in_flight]

bumping the thread to see if we get any good advice

[tdhawk]

I am also looking for good advice. I am going to be ordering acros in the next few weeks, first order in a couple of years. I plan on qt'ing acros until I know they are bug free.I Will also use a lugol's dip. I'm still trying to find out if there is any acro dip that can be used as a preventative against ick, or if the only sure way is qt'ing in a fishless tank for a month.

[alex9421]

At the moment I don't do anything but a good visual inspection. Haven't had a problem yet, but that doesn't mean I won't. I have seachem reef dip, and flatworm exit and will probably end up doing the dip for future additions.

[ReefSalt]

I recently noticed some tissue recession on my Monti colonys,at first I didnt notice anything on them and summed it up to the move and stress of the new system and that all will be ok.....NOT..... I have now noticed some monti nudis and really cannot treat by dipping since the pieces in question are over 12" in diameter I need a full system treatment,would interceptor kll these things?I have looked and yet to find a full tank treatment.

I suspect they came in from some recently new live rock or Acro`s I added.
I am going to try some wrasses such as yellow,coris,six line which are supposed to keep them in check.
Now I have to find these wrasses ASAP and place them in my system.

[D.Style]

Hey Reefsalt,

Can you describe the tissue recession you're seeing?

I've noticed some mild tissue recession on my digitata's. I'm not sure if they are the monti nudi's or some other factor...

My recession seems to start from the base of the colonies where they have encrusted onto LR. How big are monti nudies supposed to be? and how fast do they eat away at the afflicted colony?

[captain canuck]

i was unaware of the dangers of the montipora eating nudibranch until i recently purchased a monti and noticed it bleaching. i am currently doing nightly nudi hunting and will be purchasing some sort of dip at the LFS today in hopes that i can save this coral. i'd be interested in seeing what everyone else is doing to prevent this.

[ReefSalt]

D.Style,

It seems to be happening anywhere on the Monti`s, my orange cap started a outer edge and worked its way in.
My purple ring monti started at the base.I only noticed it when I was inspecting a frag and noticed a white/cream colored nudi on it very small and kinda fluffy ,then after seeing it I started to notice more and more of them.

I am presently trying to brush them off with a soft toothbrush,I am going to go to the LFS to buy a good variety of wrasses which are supposed to eat these little pests.
I will post a pic of what they look like.

[ReefSalt]

Here are some pics of what I found on my montis,this was taken by a member on RC.

http://aquariumpros.ca/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17980&d=1157301704

http://aquariumpros.ca/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17981&d=1157301704

http://aquariumpros.ca/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17982&d=1157301704

[ajx22]

Thanks for the pics Robin.

I'm going to *Sticky this thread - as this is definitely an important SPS issue!

:cheers:

[ReefSalt]

Thats a good idea AJ,
This is a good thread that ReefMadness started for SPS keepers.I just got back from the LFS the only wrasse I could find was a Fairy wrasse.
Well I will post some updates if I see it eating some of these nudi`s fingers are now crossed.

[papafish]

I use salifert flatworm exit in a dip for 1 hour prior to introducing new coral. Couldn't imagine what damage could be done in the reef without this prevention method. In my experience, flatworm exit doesn't just target flatworms, it will wipe out most, if not all hitch-hikers with no noticable damage to the coral.

[lotus02]

About 2 years ago I went through the monti munching nudi set back.
I will tell you it's no fun, lost all my montis. The best way I found is using Seachem reef dip,in a dish of tank water leave the monti sit about 2 minutes then use a turkey baster and blow them off. You must do this every day or every other depending on how infected you are. The green coris wrasse and yellow do eat them but can not eradicate an infestation , a few here and there they will grab.
I did a lot of research on these when I had them but it was too late to save what I had. There is no complete system treatment. Interceptor does nothing to them.(right from RC)
For those that buy frags or a new monti this can be done before you add them to your tank , if there is no QT in place.
I hope this helps some of you with these little buggers. The key is to stay on top of them. Look at your caps with a flashlight when the lights are out.(lights out about an hour if you have them you will see)
EDIT: I would like to add they do attack digitas, elkhorn and encrusting montis too so watch those too.

[ReefSalt]

Thats what I have been reading lotus....thanks for the info on your trials with this pest.
I`m leaving for a couple of weeks, and it looks like when I get back from the buis trip I will be setting up a holding tank and treat them.
I hope it will not be to late.....these things always happen at the worst of times. :(

[ReefSalt]

I usually dip my corals prior to placing them in my tank.My problem is I think they must have came in on some live rock,and thats a little harder to deal with.Lotus did reefdip kill them? or did it have little effect, killing all your monti`s? because I read that the eggs were not affected so you would have to do multiple dips or better yet a qt tank ,to make sure that you kill the offspring.

[lotus02]

The dip does not kill them just stuns them so they can be removed easier.
Yes you must do multiple dips as I said before every day or every other day depending on you infestation.
Good luck Reefsalt

[Reef Mike]

I stumbled onto a thread recently that was linking acro eating flatworms to treating with interceptor. there was a discussion that maybe the red bugs protect the colonies from the flatworms, as several people were saying that a few months after they treated for redbugs they got the acro eating flatworms..

As far as I know there is no easy cure for any of the above, and the most important thing is to inspect an acro before buying. i recently was at a store and saw an acro I really wanted but it had what appeared to be eggs on its base, so I passed as I had no idea what these eggs would hatch into.

Better be safe then sorry and inspect everything you buy closely.

Mike

[Duce]

Regarding the monti eating nudi this is an article I found and posted here recently

http://www.reeffarmers.com/tracygraynudi01.htm

[ajx22]

Regarding the monti eating nudi this is an article I found and posted here recently

http://www.reeffarmers.com/tracygraynudi01.htm
Great find Duce!

Thanks!!

[tdhawk]

I was hoping to find a cure all preventative dip for acros, but one doesn't exist. While looking I read story after story of different bug infestations and all the work involved in eradicating them. At the end of the day I've decided not to take any short cuts and follow A. Calfo's advice and continue to qt anything that is wet.

[ReefSalt]

Well thanks for that link, I have ordered some Tremazol from Germany which was formerly known as Alpha-Biocare Moneol and will give this med a shot, first on a frag to see how the coral holds up and how the nudi`s are affected.

the instructions are as follows:

Two treatments will be necessary,these parasites produce eggs in which the embryos cannot be reached by the pharmaceutical substances. The second treatment hits the then hatched worms, too. In case of skin worm, tapeworm,flatworms and scale worm infections give 1 ml Tremazol per each 20 litres of water into the tank. A single treatment will be sufficient for skin worms, which do not produce eggs, and for tapeworms and scale worms a second treatment will be needed.
It mentions that treatment should be for 6 hours for aqaurium fish. I will use a more concentrated dose and dip for 10min.

I will post my results once it comes in.

[Duce]

ReefSalt pls keep us updated.
Does any sponsor or GTA LFS carry the product?

[ReefSalt]

I dont think any AP sponsors carry it since it has not hit the North American Market yet,and I would not recommend it until tested,I will post my results of this med successful or not.

[in_flight]

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while feeding the tank today and admiring the new growth on my acro's i noticed something unusual on my purple tipped acro

RED BUGS!!!!!!

The last time i went on an sps buying spree was the weekend when all the stores had their shipments sales. I didn't notice any red bugs since then so i'm concluding that the stores weren't the source. I've also researched that red bugs have a standard gestation period of 5 days and so i should have seen something the last few weeks, being that i closely monitor my tank and it's inhabitants daily during my ritual feeding regiment :D

Last week i did buy 3 frags of sps from a fellow reefer and today during regular feeding, i noticed the red bugs so i simply have to conclude that this reefer was the source. I'll be contacting that person to get more details and to warn him in case they do not know about it.

Over the next few days i'll be trying to catch my cleaner shrimps/acro crabs and hermits and they will temporarily be housed in my seahorse tank.

I'll be visiting the vet tmw to get some interceptor--does anyone know how much they go for and how much i should get? i'm planning on doing an 8hr treatment 4x 1 week apart with a 25% WC

i can't believe this has happened to me :( i'm usually very careful inspecting new purchases but because this came from a trusted and well known reefer i didn't bother. i'll be more vigilant next time

the only other solution i could figure is to remove all my sps and borrow an empty tank from a friend and possibly an MH light and treat that tank

this just sucks

[nemo79]

Could You Not Do A Quick Freshwater Dip? I Read An Article Where You Dip The Coral In Freshwater For A Short Period, In And Out Effect And That Will Kill Any Hitchhikers? I Did It On A Feather Dusters That Had A Few Bristle Worms On It And It Worked And The Feather Duster Is Fine! I Couldn't Find Reef Dip Anywhere So I Did This Instead.

[in_flight]

Could You Not Do A Quick Freshwater Dip? I Read An Article Where You Dip The Coral In Freshwater For A Short Period, In And Out Effect And That Will Kill Any Hitchhikers? I Did It On A Feather Dusters That Had A Few Bristle Worms On It And It Worked And The Feather Duster Is Fine! I Couldn't Find Reef Dip Anywhere So I Did This Instead.

unfortunately, FW dips are probably more hazardous to acros in the short term rather than the red bugs. I have read that a stronge lugol's solution will kill red bugs but again may cause problems to the corals

andy was just at my house today to drop off my new skimmer and he couldn't see the red bugs too much, i don't have a large infestation but unless i'm imagining it i do see it

[Ryan Mackey]

We had Eric Borneman out to talk to our club a few weeks ago. The night before, we had a cocktail party for casual conversation(and drinking). We talked about the recent wave of acro pests and came to the conclusion that, although we are quite advanced in our care and keeping of acropora(and other genera), we are tragically missing the important step of isolation protocols which public aquariums and others have observed for years. We (as a hobby) are quick to blame others if we are passed a pathogen or parasite, but the real fault lies with each of us. Never, in the short history of sps reef keeping, has the Quarantine Tank (QT) been of greater import(play on words). As environmental pressures increase on our captive stoney corals, so do the risk of predation and transmission. We need to begin a dialog with each other, designed to elevate the QT to the status of necessity. Let's begin right now.


"Hey, you got a QT?"

"Damn fine lookin' QT ya got there."

"Got any room in yer QT?, mine is full up right now."

"Ya know, if it wasen't for your QT, I'd think you were an idiot!"

(Feel free to make up some of your own) Ryan

[Darryl_V]

Yes a QT for SPS is the best practice and I have thought about it myself. Some of the things holding me back are the cost in setting it up (ie flow lighting, space, etc) which could be a lot since SPS are quite demanding. No excuse I know.....

Also some pests will not show up for months...so be prepared to QT for a long time.

Dips are an important method also and combined with a QT would probably be the best solution.

I have used interceptor for Red bugs but what is the latest dips/treatment for monti nudi's and AEFW?? and how about success rates with these treatments??

[Sea MunnKey]

Forgive me for the ignorance ..... now when you guys acquire a new SPS, either member's frag or LFS, do you isolate and treat the SPS a couple times with all the necesary preventative Dips exclusively in your QT...? And until you positively know for sure that all these Pests are rid off then only do you place the SPS in your DT?
Do you run a skimmer in the QT as well?

Thanks in advance,
Paul

[tdhawk]

Also some pests will not show up for months...so be prepared to QT for a long time.

Dips are an important method also and combined with a QT would probably be the best solution.

I have used interceptor for Red bugs but what is the latest dips/treatment for monti nudi's and AEFW?? and how about success rates with these treatments??

For sps the three most common pest, aefw,redbugs and monti nudis will usually be seen with a initial inspection. The re-treatment time for aefw and red bugs is 7 days, for monti nudis 10-14 so even if only eggs are present in qt, within 2 weeks with thorough inspections these pest will be seen. What pest doesn't show up for months?
For new sps this is my routine, Before placing in qt I do a 20 min. lugols dip in a salt bucket using a turkey baster to really blast nooks and crannies. The combination of the lugols and flow will dislodge aefw and monti nudis. If none show up, into qt they go. Intercepter seems so well tolerated by sps I treat the qt whether I see red bugs or not. Daily magnifying glass inspections, holding the coral just beneath the water surface with all flow turned off gives me the clearest view. But I'll also take the coral out of water for a look as well. If all is clear after 4 weeks I'll do one more lugols dip inspection and if nothing shows up into the display. If after the first dip any aefw are present I'll give a fluke tab dip with a small powerhead running in the bucket, repeated in 5-7 days. I have only needed to use the fluke tabs once but I was impressed at how quickly the aefw dropped off, the coral slimmed up pretty good but recovered almost immediately after the dip. As a matter of fact I may end up using fluke tabs as a matter of coures for my next sps. For monti nudis (which I am dealing with in qt right now) I'll continue the lugols dips every 10 days to dislodge as many as possible and pick off any I see with daily inspections. I haven't seen any after the first 2 weeks of qt. I will be extremely cautious with this monti as there doesn't seem to be a very reliable dip for the nudi. I'll continue qt for a few more weeks if any more nudis show up I'll probably frag the coral, it is quite small anyways.

[Sea MunnKey]

:wow: that's quite an intense precautionary steps to follow!! SPS should really read....SO Painfully Slow!! No pun intended SPS lovers....:laugh:
A :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Up SPS Thread Info for Sure!!

Paul

[Darryl_V]

What I meant by months for pests to show up is sometimes even with inspection pests can be missed. One or two red bugs or sm nudi/AEFW will take quite a while to multiply...and precautionary dips would be the best practice no matter what. I will admit that you seem to be more thorough in you inspection.

Where do you get the fluke tabs for AEFW?? How do you administer that treatment?? Geez ...it's hard enough to get a hold of interceptor.

SO you recommend....lugol's, interceptor and fluke?? Also close inspection (especially for nudi's)

Would seachem's reefdip be good instead of lugol's??

[tdhawk]

The only place I could find Fluke tabs was ... hold on, Ba's. I have never used Seachems dip, but Fluke tabs are only a few dollars. As a dip 4 tabs/5gallon bucket. I have read anywhere from 20-40 min. repeated weeklyx3 I did 40min. I agree it is very easy to miss a couple of bugs especially if you have never seen them before that is why I like the lugol's dip first. If they are there they will be dislodged making them easy to see. Also once you see them for the first time it makes it much easier to see them on the coral in qt. The nudis are hard to see in the bucket (they are tiny and white). If I see anything suspicious I use a marker sized combo micro/telescope I picked up at Lee Valley. It is excellent to clearly see what the bugs look like "if" you are able to pick up a bug in a dropper and place it on a piece of wax paper. A good magnifying glass is a must.
I'll always use interceptor in qt whether I see the rb's or not. To this point I have only used the fluke tabs after seeing the aefw but I'm considering using it as a prophylactic next time.
For nudis I'm still looking for something more effective that manual removal but so far no luck.
After using these dips I feel pretty confident that the sps is pest free after 2 weeks, just to be safe but mostly to cover any possible ick transfer I'll continue the qt for an additional 2 weeks.
I was never overly concerned about redbugs as there is an effective in-tank treatment but if aefw or nudis slip by, total eradication is impossible without removing and treating all sps/montis including encrusted live rock, which in my case would mean a major tear down. Qt'ing/dipping does seem like a lot of extra work that "may" not be necessary but once the qt is set-up and meds are at hand it really is not a big deal,waiting is the hardest part. I am at the point with time and money where it is just not worth it to me to take short cuts.

[lotus02]

Here's a link to Eric Bornemans article in this months Reefkeeping mag.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-09/eb/index.php
Thought I'd post it for those still battling the Monti munchers.