PLAY SAND

[pluff]

Ok everyone,I'm not sure if this is a heads up or not?Anyways I decided to call TOYS R US,about play sand.I will let u the experts tell me if its any good to use,for a DSB.Plus its only $4.99 a 30kg bag.Here is the web site of the company that makes the sand.

HTH

www.quikrete.com:
cheers:

[afss]

http://www.quikrete.com:/catalog/product_1113.html
Is probably the link to the sand. It says on the web that the sands are silica based, but the emblem looks remarkably like the southdown emblem. I would go to the store and see if they will give you a small bit or buy one bag. take a small amount ( a pinch) and put it in some vinegar. If it disolves in the vinegar then it is calcium based and is likely aragonite. If it doesn't disolve then it is likely silica based. Silica sand will work for a DSB, just aragonite based beds seem to be prefered. Not sure how much scientific fact there is behind the differences but there are many that say no silca based as it will help promote diatomes, and some say calcium based is good for buffering etc etc.

Hope it is calcium based.
Scott

[Brian L]

That's interesting. I'm not sure exactly how valid it would be, since no sand is purely one or the other but worth the experiment. Vinegar is a weak acid so I wouldn't expect it to dissolve even calcium in a short time.

Mapleaf brought me some SHAW sand that he is using. I'll check it out but I don't prefer playsand over small sized aragonite. Playsand, in my small experiment, was a pain.

[afss]

In a short time no.. vinegar will cause bubbleing with calcium based.. not with silica based.

[Dman]

After reading just about everything I could get my computer on regarding Dr. Ron's work about sandbeds, I've come to a couple of conclusions:
1. Size matters.
1a. The smaller the grain size the better. Silt is the best.
2. Composition is not at all relevant.
2a. If silica based sand causes Diatom blooms then the silica based glass that holds the water in would do it too.
2b. If aragonite based sands help buffer the water then chances are you have bigger problems with water parameters and sand dissolving issues. As the sand should dissolve and buffer the water in a typical reef tank at such an infintestimal rate to be insignificant.
2c. As Bri Fli posted in an earlier thread, at least 80 percent of the worlds beaches are silica sand. Leading me to believe that the large majority of the sand/sediment on the Ocean's floor to be silica as well. The only beaches I've ever been on that had white, white, white sand were in the Gulf Of Mexico/ Carribean.

HTH, MTCW, FWIW, ad naseum.
Dman
:spin:

[johnfish]

Very well said, Derek!

I couldn't agree more.

Cheers:)
John

[afss]

I agree with what Dman has said. Having said this what is the advantage to using aragonite sand over silica based asuming you have a silica based sand with similar grain sizes.
Scott

[afss]

I forgot the difference in the silica sand is more likely to scratch your glass if it gets under a magnet.

[Dman]

one word:

Colour

Dman
:spin:

[afss]

white silica sand can be found fairly easily and cheaply. I seem to remember many people mentioning that sandblasting sand and pool filter sand can be found in nice bright white.

Scott

[Dman]

Here is an excellent article by Dr. Ron:

Muddy Waters (http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm/1999/june/features/1/default.asp)

Here is the .45 to the kneecap for this subject:

Silica Sand (http://www.reefs.org/library/article/r_toonen9.html)

I'll add to this list as I come across them.

Please feel free to add to this list, if we get a significant amount of information I'll put together a sticky for the beginners forum.

[Brian L]

For the most part I agree with Dman. The buffering capacity of aragonite is about the same mentality as crushed coral sales men! Also, silica is likely present in all sand.

To compare this to the glass aquarium adding silica to your water is not a good analogy, though. If you placed a piece of aquarium glass in acid and water, then tested for silica, you may not see any. Sand, and likely all sand would show some level of silica under the same circumstance.

Silica chemistry is somewhat complicated. It has many forms. Some are reactive and some are not. "Colloidal" silica is reactive and causes some strange chemical reactions. It may affect some parameters of the tank, but I pay little attention to silica in my tank.

OTOH, dumping 4-5 inches of silt in a tak, then saying it's a DSB is not the answer for me. As for everything in these systems, it's a package deal. I'm going to test some sand I have with Hydrochloric acid... bet it fizzes!