15 Gallon

[DevinJM]

Hello,
I have a 23x11x14 inch tank and want to do a fowlr setup. I have a fluval 304 sitting in my closet and plan to use it for filtration and circulation, cause I figure 260 gph is enough in a 15 gallon:bsmile: , and am making a custom output setup where I will output in both rear corners and point them towards the center front. I have the heater so that is no issue, but about lighiting, would 2 15 watt tubes suffice, or would I end up needing pc or 4 tubes instead of 2? About a skimmer, what would be cheep and do the job? It isn't a big tank so something brawny is unneeded. For stock, any ideas that I can find in fredericton? and what about a good place for live rock? one last one, should I go for live sand too?
THANKS TONS
Devin, a cichlid guy hoping for salt.

[mark0933]

For fish, I'd say a six line wrasse, a pair of percs and a cleaner shrimp is nice (and pretty hard to kill IMO - good starter fish). Do a web search for a "nano tanks", and that should help you.


As for the other questions, I'm sure others are better equipped than I to answer (I have my opinions though). My tank is 110 Gallon and just started up a 12G JBJ Nano cube for my seahorses, it is a whole different world going back to a small tank. I went with the standard PC light (more for the zoos and mushrooms than the horses) and went with about 1" of live sand and about 10lbs of live rock. The tank will be curing for the next 2 months, then I'll transfer the horses.


Mark

[DevinJM]

Ok, for lx I just want the live rock and no corals of sorts, and they don't need mad light do they? What about a skimmer any ideas? and any live rock in f-ton because pets unlimited wants 16.99/lb and I think that is pricy no?

[motopsycho]

Ok, for lx I just want the live rock and no corals of sorts, and they don't need mad light do they? What about a skimmer any ideas? and any live rock in f-ton because pets unlimited wants 16.99/lb and I think that is pricy no?

$16.99/lb did you say????????????????????

Wow, in and around Toronto, Live Rock varies between $6 to $10 per pound.

[DevinJM]

Yeah, that is right 16.99/lb. So about a skimmer, any ideas because they are expensive and I am a student on a budget.

[RonPeter]

Yeah, that is right 16.99/lb. So about a skimmer, any ideas because they are expensive and I am a student on a budget.

On a 15 gallon tank you shouldn't need a skimmer as long as you are doing weekly water changes and you aren't planning on keeping corals.

[DevinJM]

Good, because I will be very well filtered and I don't overstock, and I plan to keep a good eye on the levels. Now, what about lighiting. 2x15 watt tubes alright? or would 1 even be fine? I could probably get 4 15 watters under my canopy, but I only plan on Live rock and sand.

[mark0933]

If you only have rock/sand, light is only for asthetics, so 1 would be fine, 2 would be better (one daylight and one actinic) but one of the "power glo" types should be fine, just remember most corals won't like it (ie, don't bother buying the "premium" live rock with corals on it)


I'd still get a skimmer IMO, a prizm is better than nothing, and can be cheap used (on EBAY)

Ask AJ about live rock, he is now out in NB now, so see what he can do for you.

Mark

[DevinJM]

Isn't actinic only for asthetics? Ok, so what kind of lighiting would I need for premium live rock? I don't want to deal with corals so would it really matter? what about that deepwater live rock, does that have the lx needs? and I want to get a skimmer, just not something that is going to cost an arm and a leg, but will do the job without complaning. It isn't the biggest tank, and I would have thought that there would be some skimmers out there for smaller tanks.

[mark0933]

Actinics provide the blue spectrum that many algeas/corals/mushrooms need (such as the pink and purple coraline algea on the live rock) - some of the other lights (like I referred to the power glo) do have some actinic in them, so 1 of those may be OK, but you have to remember the light will limit what you keep. Most live rock will do fine with this light, then when the upgrade bug hits, you can go straight to MH lighting.

For skimmers: prism, bakpak and the infamous seaclone are the "small tank" skimmers.

Mark

[DevinJM]

cool. I will look at getting the 2 tubes and running a life glo 1, cause it is high intensity with internal reflector, and a marine glo actininc.

[DevinJM]

Would the 6line wrasse, the 2 percs and a cleaner shrimp be overstocked? what about a cleanup crew?

[mark0933]

I wouldn't see that as overstocking (as long as you added them over time, such as the 6 line, then the shrimp, then finally the 2 percs over a 3-6 week period), the shrimp adds minimal bioload, and the fish all remain relatively small. As for cleanup crew, I'd go with a few cerith snails or fighting conch (if available), 2 Nerite snails and a couple of turbos - I don't like hermits, but that is my opinion, they kill snails, and some grow quite big.

I wouldn't consider any of these to add to the bioload to any large degree.

Mark

PS - the only thing you may want to consider is a lawnmower blenny instead of the 6 line (although they are prettier IMO) since the lawnmower will eat the hair algea that you WILL get eventually.

[DevinJM]

Is there anything else that you would change?

[notclear]

I've two 15G. One with the Remora and one without any skimmer. I changed 10% water every week. The tank with Remora has 3 fish while the other tank has only 2 fish. Both tanks are running good.

[mark0933]

Well, since I said the 6 line originally, but changed my mind to the lawnmower :D I'd say that I wouldn't change a thing. Use a sand bed about 2" deep, and clear all the filter material out of the fluval, essentially just use it for flow.


Here are some other fish for you to consider:

Firefish
Pygmy angel (flameback)
any of the smaller wrasses (flasher, fairy)
an orchid dottyback
royal gramma

I'd think any of these and the clowns would get along, if you didn't get the clowns, I'd say only one of the above and the lawnmower would do it. Do not put a 6line in with a dottyback, as they don't play nice together (I know from experience)

Mark

[Chrismo]

In my opinion, if you want good light for corals etc, than a white bulb is good. Something around 10000K, anything above that (bluer) sacrifices usable light (PAR) for aethetics.

Since you arent looking to keep corals, just decide what kind of light you want by what you like the look of. I'd go with Powerglo's myself. I'm not a fan of actinics.

[DevinJM]

cool, good to know about the bulbs. Now, about the 304, would it not be more useful with the foam and pre filter, then 2 layers of biomax? it would keep the water clean and help with the bacteria?

[mark0933]

No, WRT the filter, the sponges, and the other materials act as detritus traps, and add to the nitrates over time (and hair algae problems). There will be plenty of surface area on the live rock for the bacteria. The Live rock is your filter, and it will keep the water clean.


Mark

[DevinJM]

ok, that seems a bit weird. So, do not use any mechanical filtration of any sort on my tank? what about debris, floating waste and such? I replace the sponges 1 a month, clean the biomax,prefilter and sponges with every water change and have no nitrate issues on my 44 gallon freshwater, or is saltwater that much different.

[notclear]

I use sponge as pre-filter. But I clean it with "fresh tap water" once a week.

[DevinJM]

Well, it sort of makes sence, but I should have some sort of non natural filter, or at least it seems to me. Quick change my mind. Please help me. and wouldn't a 2 inch sand bed have dead spots cause i am not using a ugf, or is that what the snails are for.

[RonPeter]

If you aren't going to have a skimmer I would leave the sponge in the 304 but make sure you clean it once a week! 2" is the thickest I would have my sandbed, make sure you get some nassarius snails and some cerith snails as they will burrow in the sand and help keep it clean. JMO

[DevinJM]

Ok, that sounds good.

[mark0933]

Devin, you want "dead spots" in the sand as they will be the anaerobic areas where the nitrifying bacteria turn nitrates to nitrogen (which is harmless, and released through gas exchange)


The snails recommended are good for keeping the top layer clean, but the lower layer should be undisturbed.

Mark

[rangerdave1]

Hi Devin, I have a 14 gallon tank and will specify my equipement for you. I started off with 20+lbs of LR and some crushed coral as my substrate. I use a aquaclear 200 HOB filter with foam to remove bigger mechanical stuff floating around. i clean the foam/sponge every few weeks and haven't had any problems. I have 1 power head. I started off with 1 - 15watt powerglow and
1 - 15watt marineglow(actinic) which was ok for a few weeks but then quickly added more light. i then got a power compact light fixture that has 1 - 28watt 50/50 bulb (10k/actinic). that helped alot! it now looks alot better. I have zoo's, star polyps, mushrooms, ricordia, kenya trees, leathers, etc... everything seems pretty happy.

I have 1 Perc Clown, 1 Royal Gramma, 1 Sally Lightfoot crab, 1 Serpent star, 15+ blue leg crabs, 10+ assorted snails.

I do 20% water changes every 1-2 weeks. i don't use a skimmer cause i don't have room for it. my tank look pretty good but i'm sure it would be better with a skimmer. if you got room for it, get one.

These small tanks are little bit of a pain cause they are small and hard to work with. there isn't much room to put any equipment in them. next time i setup a small tank, i will go for something around 20gallons.

hope this helps.

click on the links below to see my tank.

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=15174
http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=15319

[DevinJM]

Cool, I could go for 4 tubes instead of 2 and that would up it to 60 watts, and what would I use for tubes? 1 actinic, a lifeglo (6700), and 2 power glo, or what would you suggest? I am hoping to get a used skimmer and that would help. I am only going to use the sponges in the fluval and the baskets will remain empty and it will be primarily for the flow. Isn't that alot of crabs? What could I get with 60 watts of light on the 15?

[rangerdave1]

well, what kind of canopy are you using? are you building your own? personaly, i would go for 2 55watt power compacts. they are 21" which will work in your application and would provide 110 watts of light. i would use a ballast like a workhorse 7 which is worth aroun 60bucks. eahc bulb cost around 30bucks so it wouldn't be too much money. the bulbs are available in 10k(powerglow color), actinitic(marineglow color) and 50/50 (10k/actinic). this set up would be much better cause you could keep lots more types of corals and wouldn't be much more money then buying 4 normal output bulbs plus the ballast for them...

heres a link to show you the bulbs.
http://www.petsolutions.com/Coralife+Straight+Pin+Compacts-I-46405125-I-C-102427-C-.aspx

[DevinJM]

It is just that I can get the no fixtures local where as if I used the pc, i could get industrial ballasts local and order the tubes, but my old man is not about to let me do that. He is tight that way, and I cant blame him. That is alot of power.

[DevinJM]

Would 40 watts of pc be alright?

[notclear]

It is ok if you don't have any corals.


By the way regarding your search for a protein skimmer, try this one:
http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/details/skimmers.php?product_ID=ps-c3000

It is now on sale. It is quite big but is just half the price of the Remora. It has also got many good reviews.

[DevinJM]

Hey , ok for a skimmer I want to get a visijet skimmer, cause it is cheep and works good once tweaked, as for light I want to get an 80 watt pc retro, half actinic half daylight from sunpac. what kind of stuff could I have with that?

[rangerdave1]

Hi Devin, 80 watts of light will be plenty of light for a 15 gallon. IMO, that's a great choice. that will give you 5.33 watts/gallon which will let you keep any softies. Some SPS requiring lower light could survive aswell but is much harder to keep in a tank of that size. Reason being is beacuse it's hard to keep the water perimeters stable which is important for SPS more so then easier corals. keeping Ca and ALk at the right level for SPS will be really hard cause there isn't much water in that tank.

[DevinJM]

softies like what?

[rangerdave1]

Well, you'll be able to keep Zoo's, star polyps, ricordea, mushrooms, leathers, kenya tree, etc without any problems.

Click on the links below for a basic explanation on the different types of corals & some inverts.

LPS: http://www.janetsreef.com/LPS_Corals.htm
SPS: http://www.janetsreef.com/SPS_Corals.htm
SOFT: http://www.janetsreef.com/Soft_corals.htm
POLYPS/MUSHROOMS: http://www.janetsreef.com/Polyps_Mushrooms.htm
INVERTS: http://www.janetsreef.com/inverts.htm

Hope this helps out.

[in_flight]

Well, you'll be able to keep Zoo's, star polyps, ricordea, mushrooms, leathers, kenya tree, etc without any problems.

Click on the links below for a basic explanation on the different types of corals & some inverts.

LPS: http://www.janetsreef.com/LPS_Corals.htm
SPS: http://www.janetsreef.com/SPS_Corals.htm
SOFT: http://www.janetsreef.com/Soft_corals.htm
POLYPS/MUSHROOMS: http://www.janetsreef.com/Polyps_Mushrooms.htm
INVERTS: http://www.janetsreef.com/inverts.htm

Hope this helps out.

great links! very helpful for a newbie like me

[RonPeter]

Those are great links. Thanks alot.

[rangerdave1]

no problem at all. the entire site seems to be pretty good. it doesn't go in too much detail but it does covers alot of basic need to know information.

[DevinJM]

Is there a site that goes into a little more detail about keeping softies? Thanks for the previous sites, they helped.