My story... Refractometers off ebay

[aesop]

Just thought I'd let everyone in on a secret which many probably allready know (ebay CAN be a good place to buy things). I think it gives a good overview as to how business work these days; the seller may not be the biggest; as long as they are the cheapest :)

I was on the hunt for a refractormeter; and asked a few local stores about them. The price I was quoted was ~100$. Which was more clams then I wished to shell out considering that I remember seeing it on ebay previously for close to half that price.

So off I went to good old ebay.. there was two canadian sellers which had it for ~50$CDN, + shipping 10$... + tax...

Since I was looking for two (one for myself & brother); I asked around to see if I could get a discount..
1. seller from montreal?? was willing to give me a discount of 0$, quoted me the "buy it now" price.. and to add insult to injury.. charged me 2x the shipping cost. I had initially held out so he could get stock, since I wanted to purchase some other items also.. but no go...
2. Seller from hamilton gave me a discount of about 5$ but wanted to charge me tax on top of it (which is fair), making it even costlier then #1
3. Seller from somewhere in the states; gave me a 10$ discount; charged me half for shipping, and was willing to "mark it as a gift". ie - no tax, no duties, etc.. :hammer:

I went with #3, 2weeks later.. I am now in possession of the refractometers. Total cost after shipping (with the great exchange rate) ~48$CDN/each..

Why my fellow canadian sellers could not give me a break is beyond me... its interesting to note that my needle style salinity reads the same as my refractometer :party1:

[Cellenzweig]

Why my fellow canadian sellers could not give me a break is beyond me... What is beyond me, is why you would expect a deal on 2 $50 items. I could see if you are buying a box of them, but imo, two doesn't really quantify a bulk order. And you just said that they are $100 in stores, so isn't $50 quite a break already?

Also, the quality and durability of refractometers varies greatly. You can get a cheapie with crappy optics and a plastic body. Or you can pay more for one with ground glass lenses and an aircraft aluminium body. Without comparing the actual products, it's hard to say which is the better deal.

Now, could you have beat price of #'s 1 & 2 if the dealer didn't violate customs laws? The local dealers have to pay duty and tax, so that may be why they can't undercut those who don't.

[Red-Sea]

Cellenzweig stole the words out of my mout, couldn't say it better myself.

Did you concider in case of problem you have to ship it back to U.S and that if the seller is still around unless is a seller with store, somethimes it's not worth the hassle of saving few bucks, certain things I understand to bring over from U.S but most items not worth IMO...

[aesop]

I did a comparison for the the different types - and do know about how they vary in quality. The models were identical in all cases; (the price diference varied by about 20$/each) which does add up to alot. 40$ can buy a few burgers/frags. I would doubt that the sellers would be able to sell a "pro" version at only a 20$ premium.

Also what can possibly go wrong with a refractormeter? you drop water on the lense, you focus the viewfinder if need be; then look at the line. short of dropping it; there isn't much that can go wrong.

The prices of #1 and #2 would still be above the price of number #3. With tax.

My Point is -
1. Yes there are drawbacks;
2. How can there be a price difference of 2X vs the store here..
3. If a canadian ebayer can sell it for cheaper. Is it worth it to get it from the store.

By all means. If you OK with buying it at 100$ from the LFS. go ahead. I posted this information to give people the knowledge that there are cheaper alternatives out there. If one was inclined to to pay the tax and duty; then just get them to mark it as an item for sale. and you will still come out ahead. But given the choice between the same item selling for 100$ vs 50$.. which would you take?

It takes me 5mins to send an email.. and wait for a response.. there is no effort in it.. that is the new model of business on the internet now.. this was an example to show it.

[Reef Mike]

Wow... Why are you jumping on the guy for buying this from the US... It seems everytime someone here buys stuff from the US there is whole issue... Sometimes cheapest is the best..

Mike

[Fishlips]

I've be screwed twice on ebay, one from a seller that had 2000 reviews. I'm still an avid ebayer but there are risks which are greater when purchasing from the US.
On another note, I was also shipped something as a gift and had to pay the taxes anyways. Customs isn't totally blind to this scam.

[twizttid1]

Here here Reef Mike.
So what if he bought it from the states... anyone of us would jump on this purcahse if you were able to get the product at such a discounted price.
I figure go cheaper..... A lot of equipment is not readily available to us via Canadian Suppliers and those suppliers who do have the equipment charge far too much for it (Can retail price = (Amer$ + Duties & Taxes + Markup).
Why not just cut the middle man and forego the supplier markup?

What's the big deal people?? You gotta do what you gotta do...
Kudos to Aesop for getting a good deal! Regardless of which country it came from.

[aesop]

Thanks guys; I was hopping that people would be able to see beyond the various issues; and realize that they can save themselves some bucks. This hobby is $$ as it is.. and when the forsale forum went down.. look at how many people went bonkers.. It's because everyone knows that things can be bought for cheaper. (what about warranty then??).

I REALLY gave the 2 canadian sellers a chance - beacuse they were canadian, and I specifically looked for a canadian seller!!. The first guy was just outright impossible to deal with, I had originally waited for him to get them back in stock. (a few weeks - which turned into over a month).

As for ebay - most CC companies will back you up, and if you use paypal, the money is also insured.. I haven't had someone screw me over yet - so I guess I'm lucky..

Ah well.. happy shopping...

PS:There is no way in heck shipping for two refractometers can cost 20$USD!!! It cost the guy I got it from 7$USD for both.. and he's from the US... I was charged 10$, and the boxed was peanut filled and very well packed.. the cases for the meter was even wrapped in bubble wrap..

[cancruiser]

Honestly, My money is my money. It's better in my pocket then in any retailers pocket whether they are form the US or Canada. If the US seller is going to cut me a break then your better bet I'll buy from them.

As for expecting a discount on only 2 items.....Why not? We seem to have lost the art of wheeling and dealing. Most people pay the sticker price and thats it. I have a guy at work who got me a great deal of money off a TV at Future shop. Try dealing with those guys...... :) He gets discounts basically everywhere he goes. We bought a 20g Hagen kit for a freshie tank at work from Petsmart. He got 15% off form the staff there...I never even thought about it when we bought there.

Bottom line, If I can save $$ from buying in the US because the Canadian sellers wont cut a Canadian a break....Too Bad!

It sure doesn't hurt that the CAD is much stronger these days.....

IMO

[neemo]

Leave the guy alone.
Everyone buys where he/she wants - period.
In the end you will give your money to the merchant you think will deserve your business -- whether the reason boils down to price, service, past dealings, etc.
Everyone has a fair crack at earning you $$, if one guy cannot beat another on price, well he'll find another way to add some value to his customers.
One thing I'm sure all of us hobbyists have seen in this business, is the fierce competition that exists between merchants. Everyone has something negative to say (and will gladly volunteer to say it) about the next guy doing this hobby as a business.
It's not something I like to see take place, but sadly thats the reality in this day and age.

[Michael_Lambert]

We spend SOOOOO Much Bloody money on this hobby.. and then something stupid happens.. like what happened to me and you lose most of it..

So when it comes to saving money.. DO IT!.. If the Canadian retailers don't like us going to the US.. then its up to them to do something about it..

Lately our Canadian dollar is doing very well.. we all see changes in just about everything.. especially GAS... lol, But no changes in this Hobby!.. not yet.. I'm sure they will come.. and then we wont need to worry about people going to the USA to get what they want and need.

[djtodd]

I bought mine from the guy in Hamilton off eBay. $40 or thereabouts. Of course, 6 months ago our dollar wasn't worth as much, so it wound up being cheaper than the states.

As far as buying Canadian or not, I try to buy from a Canadian retailer, but if it's going to save me $20 or so I'll go to the states.

[Reef Mike]

At current exchanges and dealing with US mail order (shipped to buffallo) almost any piece of equipment is half price, when compared with buying from a retail store up here....

I bought almost all my equipment from the US, and saved several thousand dollars.. If it wasn't for that then I would not be buying the livestock from the local stores as I would not have a tank at what equipment costs here.. Being a business man I cannot pay double for something if I can get it elsewhere for 50% off.. I just can't do it and wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing how much money I could have saved..

Mike

[Oakville Reef Gallery]

mt 2 cents as a retailer,there are times when a price from the u.s. cant be matched,mainly because of shipping,brokerage and duty if it doesnt have proper papers.at that point and with hesitation we advise the customer to go ahead and buy it there.and we are thankful we had the opportunity to compete for the business.as a retailer that does half its business in the u.s. weve adjusted with the high canadian dollar.the bad part is canadian whole sellers that supply the stores wont adjust their pricing to reflect the dollar.if a guy got a good deal on a refractometer,whooopeee and all the power to him for getting a good deal.

[Tazzmacd]

I've be screwed twice on ebay, one from a seller that had 2000 reviews. I'm still an avid ebayer but there are risks which are greater when purchasing from the US.
On another note, I was also shipped something as a gift and had to pay the taxes anyways. Customs isn't totally blind to this scam.

As a side note, if they did open it then the taxes that you would be paying would be on the $100 price that you woudl get them for here, if I am not mistaken.

yes it is a good price, but it can cost you in the long run by doing this.

Just a thought for future purchases

Cheers!!

Pat

[aesop]

Yeap; I realize that it could happen; and did take that into account. Even so the price would still be cheaper. When I did the calculations, I didn't factor in the tax when comparing before I purchased... without tax it was that better a deal...

Cell... Less then a week ago... you're telling some guy to buy something that has a price difference of ($8US vs $14Cdn per bulb) and When I tell people they can save even more you freak out??? What's the deal?
http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=88763#post88763
If you do end up ordering, check out AH supply first. (www.ahsupply.com) They are a little cheaper. ($8US vs $14Cdn per bulb) You probably have to pay duty, but it's worth it is you plan on ordering a few. Get them to ship it USPS to avoid brokerage.

[Reef Mike]

Flav

Why don't you guys order from US wholesalers?? Wouldn't that be cheaper as then you would only need to pay GST and brokarage?? Also if you would ship your order to Buffalo and bring it across yourself (you would be the broker) all you would have to pay is GST on the declared value as all aquarium supplies are duty free if they come from the US and all it would cost is some gas to buffalo????

This way we would all benefit :) Just a thought, as I have brought goods for resale this way before..

Mike

[Cellenzweig]

Cell... Less then a week ago... you're telling some guy to buy something that has a price difference of ($8US vs $14Cdn per bulb) and When I tell people they can save even more you freak out??? What's the deal? lol, I'm not exactly freaking out...

It's not the buying in the states that bothers me, it was more this sentence:

Why my fellow canadian sellers could not give me a break is beyond me...

I just don't understand why you would expect a discount for buying two items. If dealer #1 and dealer #2 are charging 50-60% of what the store is charging for the same item, then they probably aren't making too much profit. If the either gave you $10 off, they probably wouldn't make anything, surely not enough to make a "volume discount" worth thier while.

[cancruiser]

Profit off of a 1 time sale might not be much but who's to say because of that $10 dicsount the shopper has a good buying experience and returns and/or sends others?

Isn't that the whole point of why this thread was started?

Just a point to ponder :)

[aesop]

There should be a discount for buying two items, some members have allready mentioned that... Also there is no reason that shipping for two items would cost the same as shipping for one item. Standard practice on Ebay is to group purchases together so you don't have to pay for both items seperately.

For anything that is sold/mailed to your house there will be a discount if mailed together. Most if not all online retailers do this, I bet even aquarium pros will do it; so does MOPS.

I don't expect a discount on the item price; but I will buy from the cheapest source if the items are the same. You're saying I should not (Since you seem to disagree with my logic) - and should buy from a fellow canadian who could not give me a break; but your post indicates the opposite; in essence contradicting yourself.

[aesop]

Profit off of a 1 time sale might not be much but who's to say because of that $10 dicsount the shopper has a good buying experience and returns and/or sends others?

Isn't that the whole point of why this thread was started?

Just a point to ponder :)

Funny you should mention this... here is the sellers response to my confirming the arrival... And yes I would go back I need more or need anything else he has.. :)

Good to know everything arrived in good condition. Hope you can buy more from me in the future. Thanks!

[Cellenzweig]

(Since you seem to disagree with my logic) - and should buy from a fellow canadian who could not give me a break; but your post indicates the opposite; in essence contradicting yourself.

It's not the buying in the states that bothers me, I'm not sure how I can possibly clarify this any more. I don't care if you buy from the states.



it was more this sentence:

Quote:
Why my fellow canadian sellers could not give me a break is beyond me... Once again, I have no problem with buying from the U.S. What I don't like is the expectation of getting a discount for buying two items, especially when (like you said yourself) they were already much cheaper than the local stores. Do you walk into a grocery store and ask for a discount because you are buying two bottles of pop? Do you ask the gas station for a better price if you fill up, as opposed to getting $5 in gas? Of course not. I just don't see why the expectation is there for other retailers regardless of whether they have a storefront or sell online. If you were buying a dozen refractometers, that may be a different story.

As far as the seperate shipping goes, I agree, that is pretty ridiculous...


Profit off of a 1 time sale might not be much but who's to say because of that $10 dicsount the shopper has a good buying experience and returns and/or sends others?

Isn't that the whole point of why this thread was started?

Sure, the seller may gain repeat business. Since you expect a discount from local retailer on two items, I would assume you expect a discount from him in the future. And if he already took a profit loss of $10 on under $100 in product, how willing do you think he'll be to give another discount. Eventually this guy has to make some money off you... or he will go out of business.

And I don't see how this thread is sending others, since it doesn't mention dealer #3's name. I don't see how it could benefit him at all. Even if the name was mentioned, do you think he wants a bunch of people coming to him now and asking for a discount when he may not be making much in the first place? And do you think he wants a bunch of people asking him to break immigration laws because he did it for the last guy?

[aesop]

I'm not sure how I can possibly clarify this any more. I don't care if you buy from the states.
Once again, I have no problem with buying from the U.S. What I don't like is the expectation of getting a discount for buying two items, especially when (like you said yourself) they were already much cheaper than the local stores.

I think you're missing my point; If you read my previous posts, You will notice I mentioned that business on the internet is different then normal retail. I did ask for price including shipping for both items. Which one would think incorporates the shipping cost.

My mistake since I didn't spell everything out in detail initially...


Do you walk into a grocery store and ask for a discount because you are buying two bottles of pop? Do you ask the gas station for a better price if you fill up, as opposed to getting $5 in gas? Of course not. I just don't see why the expectation is there for other retailers regardless of whether they have a storefront or sell online. If you were buying a dozen refractometers, that may be a different story.

Again, it takes me 5mins max to send an email; and ask for a price. I've been to LFS around town; and HAVE negotiated a price for corals/fish (A revelation that was revealed to me from one of threads on here). I would assume that based on what you're saying you;ve never done so. And purchase everything at the set price?


As far as the seperate shipping goes, I agree, that is pretty ridiculous...

Woohoo we agree! :)

As for names; You will notice I never mention any names; why should I start now? The point of this thread was that You can find things for cheap if you are willing to spare a few minutes of your time. If this didn't get to the state it was - I would have been more then willing to release the sellers name/email, so that others may also benefit...

........................................

This board - based on what I can see - is here to help others, I was able to find a lower price, and pointed out that its possible and others may wish to go that route. (and others have)

But you chose to nitpick on the details. Which is fine; to each his own, as long as others can benefit from this information - I am content.

Some people may not have as deep a pocket as yourself. I make good use of DYI and used products, to save a buck so I can enjoy this hobby;

The end.

[tdhawk]

As a side note, if they did open it then the taxes that you would be paying would be on the $100 price that you woudl get them for here, if I am not mistaken.

yes it is a good price, but it can cost you in the long run by doing this.

Just a thought for future purchases

Cheers!!

Pat
Also if they had opened it you would have been stuck with brokerage fees, which if shipped UPS, isn't it like $30-$35min.? Scamming the system is great until you get caught.

[Chrismo]

Good to hear that there are deals out there Aesop. :)

[aesop]

As tdhawk mentioned NEVER ship using UPS when sending it in from the US. they tack on a brokerage fee which in all cases will balloon the price of item you are recieving..

Ship using standard USPS, and if you must.. fedex as a 2nd choice.. I've had packages opened during the 911 ordeals, and never been charge tax (and they were not shipped as gifts). So its really a toss up.

[ajx22]

CLOSED per thread starters request...
Please guys...

This is an open forum - but let's try to keep things from getting out of hand.

Thanks,